Cloudflare Developers•2y ago

it would've been awesome to have functions or update hook to listen to changes

Fferas it would've been awesome to have functions or update hook to listen to changes

Max (@rozenmd)•4/30/24, 6:59 AM

we're just getting started with D1 fwiw

MMax (@rozenmd)we're just getting started with D1 fwiw

ferasOP•4/30/24, 7:25 AM

great job so far, hope to see full features soon

Ccopper does d1 sleep?

Hello, I’m Allie!•4/30/24, 12:56 PM

They do, yes, though you aren't billed for whether the D1 instance is asleep or not

Hello, I’m Allie!•4/30/24, 12:56 PM

You only pay for storage/ops

Ccopper ok and do you know the time d1 needs to wake up before it can respond to a reque...

Isaac McFadyen•4/30/24, 4:34 PM

It's fairly low - on the order of 10s to 100s of ms. I believe the more you have stored the longer it will be, but still fairly low in any case.

James•4/30/24, 5:22 PM

Quick question, and I know alpha databases should be avoided, but doesn't "deprecation" not mean "completely disabling functionality"?

From the recent email:

On July 1, 2024, we will deprecate D1 alpha databases. Upon deprecation, alpha databases will reject live SQL queries

I don't personally have any alpha DBs that I use in production anyway, but describing this as a "deprecation" but then completely disabling all queries to it seems to counter eachother a little. This was the first real direct comms I've received about D1 alpha DBs being formally deprecated. cc @Vy

James•4/30/24, 5:43 PM

To be clear, I'm not against the deprecation of the old alpha DBs, but this seems to be the first formal comms I've received about it. I totally understand preventing new ones being created, and actively discouraging their usage even, but a comms window of ~2 months until all queries just start getting rejected feels a little hasty. What if someone was on vacation for the next month or two, and hasn't been actively following discord or places where this deprecation may have been discussed? cc @Matt

Ryley•4/30/24, 6:08 PM

Sorry to be that guy... but are there any plans to expand beyond 10 free dbs. I have like many side projects. So for those...

PS: I am very grateful for free dbs with really good performance.

JJames Quick question, and I know alpha databases should be avoided, but doesn't "depre...

Vy•4/30/24, 6:08 PM

Email was meant to be first direct comms to keep raising awareness (will send periodic reminders), docs were already updated. Alpha should be considered deprecated now, with July as target for EOL (no live SQL queries). Given the increased reliability and performance of the current GA architecture, we want to heavily encourage folks to recreate their databases. Your alpha data is still accessible via backup through the end of the year.

Vy•4/30/24, 6:30 PM

hasn't been actively following discord or places where this deprecation may have been discussed

Agree passive outreach not ideal, we would love to keep improving here (maybe something like changelog subscriptions)

VVy Email was meant to be first direct comms to keep raising awareness (will send pe...

James•4/30/24, 6:31 PM

From the email, July 1st is the date for deprecation, which has a very different meaning from essentially making them non-functional, imo:

On July 1, 2024, we will deprecate D1 alpha databases. Upon deprecation, alpha databases will reject live SQL queries

~60 days until a database starts outright rejecting queries is extremely poor communication. I understand it was Alpha, but this feels like a pretty hasty and unfortunate way to treat your early adopters.

Chaika•4/30/24, 6:34 PM

the D1 Dashboard doesn't do a good job of exposing alpha dbs either, afaik it's just the existence of the backups tab and no metrics/time travel, would be nice if they were way better highlighted, with a warning symbol or something in the overview and a banner when you go into one of them.
The email itself should really highlight which DBs you have that are effected too imo

James•4/30/24, 6:35 PM

Agreed. The communication around this deprecation really leaves a lot to be desired. The timeline and way it was communicated is truly not great.

CChaika the D1 Dashboard doesn't do a good job of exposing alpha dbs either, afaik it's ...

Vy•4/30/24, 6:35 PM

wrangler d1 infowrangler d1 info will also tell you. Can take feedback on the UI callout

JJames Agreed. The communication around this deprecation really leaves a lot to be desi...

Vy•4/30/24, 6:36 PM

Thanks for feedback, we can always keep improving. What timeline would you expect? We're trying to balance tradeoffs, with no impending target date our active outreach can go ignored

VVy Thanks for feedback, we can always keep improving. What timeline would you expec...

James•4/30/24, 6:38 PM

Announcing the deprecation for July 1st to me would be totally fine. At that point, discourage usage, clearly show DBs as alpha, and actively prompt me to upgrade with dash banners, etc, with an impending cut-off date.
But deprecation is not the time to completely cut off all queries from databases. That should happen maybe 3-6 months after the deprecation is announced, and should be announced at the same time, with ongoing comms throughout that period as it gets closer.

JJames Announcing the deprecation for July 1st to me would be totally fine. At that poi...

Vy•4/30/24, 6:46 PM

thanks! I tripped up on language here. Our intention was with D1 GA, alpha dbs should be considered deprecated (everything still works). And then July 1st (3 months after), alpha dbs stop accpecting SQL queries. Can work to clarify in the future

VVy thanks! I tripped up on language here. Our intention was with D1 GA, alpha dbs s...

Isaac McFadyen•4/30/24, 6:46 PM

Definitely understand the idea of deprecation at D1 GA but it wasn't really communicated to the user very well.

VVy thanks! I tripped up on language here. Our intention was with D1 GA, alpha dbs s...

James•4/30/24, 6:46 PM

That may have been the intention, but that was never communicated to people, and that's the core problem here.

Isaac McFadyen•4/30/24, 6:47 PM

They were "superceded" but no real indication that they were going to be turned off until now.

James•4/30/24, 6:48 PM

I would strongly encourage you to push this "cut-off" date back until after the communicated deprecation date (after July 1st), and re-communicate that. It's going to be really hard to want to adopt something early from Cloudflare in future if this becomes commonplace.

Chaika•4/30/24, 6:49 PM

there was even that D1 GA Email, but it didn't mention anything about deprecation or cutoff, other then that "you can" migrate

Unsmart•4/30/24, 6:53 PM

I'm surprised alpha dbs arent already yeeted lol

Vy•4/30/24, 6:58 PM

Team can re-evaluate "cut off" (stop SQL requests) date.

Unsmart•4/30/24, 7:00 PM

I dont think any of the convo here holds any value since we dont have any and I cant imagine that many people have alpha dbs still. Would probably be more useful to find out who has alpha still and just email with them to get the old ones deleted

Unsmart•4/30/24, 7:01 PM

Or at least of those who still do I doubt they are really used, maybe a lot of people have abandoned old ones

UUnsmart I dont think any of the convo here holds any value since we dont have any and I ...

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:04 PM

me, james, and isaac at the very least all have Alpha DBs, I think I have one or two old projects pointed at them, not that they're super important but more notice is appreciated regardless/a proper deprecation

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:04 PM

iirc only people with alpha dbs only got the email, I only got it on 2/3 out of my accounts, and both had alpha dbs

Unsmart•4/30/24, 7:05 PM

I got it and dont have one so

josh•4/30/24, 7:05 PM

If anyone has any concerns about getting their database migrated, I would be glad to hop on a call and help walk through the migration guide https://developers.cloudflare.com/d1/platform/alpha-migration/

Cloudflare Docs

Alpha database migration guide · Cloudflare D1 docs

D1 alpha databases will stop accepting live SQL queries on July 1, 2024.

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:07 PM

that's appreciated :MeowHeartCloudflare: although migration isn't that hard/not the core of theconcern, it's just more of the process of it. Being emailed 2 months before without it telling you which DBs are effected, the dash doesn't explicitly tell you either which ones, and calling it "deprecation" when it's really more like full shutdown

VVy Team can re-evaluate "cut off" (stop SQL requests) date.

James•4/30/24, 7:07 PM

This would be the best approach. Deprecate, clearly mark that everywhere, set a cut-off date after deprecation, and then actively communicate that. :MeowHeartCloudflare:

CChaika that's appreciated :MeowHeartCloudflare: although migration isn't that hard/no...

josh•4/30/24, 7:09 PM

We will also add a banner to the dash. That's a good idea. I had assumed more folks would be using the command line or APIs and we did add a warning there.

Jjosh If anyone has any concerns about getting their database migrated, I would be gla...

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:09 PM

would be cool if it was possible to do it automatically for everyone and would avoid a lot of it, I assume a lot of DBs could be migrated without issue automagically

CChaika would be cool if it was possible to do it automatically for everyone and would a...

josh•4/30/24, 7:14 PM

Yeah. That would have generated less pushback. Doing a 0 downtime migration is a lot of work, and frankly not worth it for an alpha product. We could migrate DBs that are not in use with no problem, but it might be pointless to migrate them. We could take downtime to migrate DBs for active use cases, but that would still have to be coordinated with customers.

Jjosh Yeah. That would have generated less pushback. Doing a 0 downtime migration is a...

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:16 PM

That makes sense, can understand why that would be difficult, then I would just hope there's a proper shut off, deprecation happening on x date, shutdown on y, emails telling you which DBs need to be upgraded with reminders, and stuff in the dash is all that would be needed

DaniFoldi•4/30/24, 7:16 PM

I'd argue it's still way less frustrating to take an alpha db offline for a minute or two to keep it going on the new backend

DaniFoldi•4/30/24, 7:16 PM

vs dumping it from the old backend, recreating it, ingesting data and changing bindings

CChaika there was even that D1 GA Email, but it didn't mention anything about deprecatio...

Vy•4/30/24, 7:24 PM

@Chaika did you recieve this email recently? The copy is from our alpha to beta email, not for GA

kingmesal•4/30/24, 7:24 PM

I've got a use case where I am running into the D1 LIMITS on sql queries - I'm on paid plan
Queries per Worker invocation (read subrequest limits) 50 (Bundled) / 1000 (Unbound)Queries per Worker invocation (read subrequest limits) 50 (Bundled) / 1000 (Unbound)

I allow my customer to upload a csv of users. I insert or update the user records into my d1 table. So, if the unique key (email address) already exists, I perform an update. (2 queries). Can the insert in conflict be batched? Is there a limit on how many statements can get put into a batch? Is this a potential way to get around the 1000 queries?

VVy @Chaika did you recieve this email recently? The copy is from our alpha to beta ...

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:26 PM

oh you're right that is older opps, that's from August of last year. That doesn't really help though, still lack of communication and suddenly an email about them being gone in 2 months

CChaika oh you're right that is older opps, that's from August of last year. That doesn'...

Vy•4/30/24, 7:26 PM

thanks, we're workign to clarify here based on feedback. just wanted to check somethign else weird wasnt happening on email side

James•4/30/24, 7:27 PM

thanks Vy. If we can help in any way, please just let us know

VVy thanks, we're workign to clarify here based on feedback. just wanted to check so...

Chaika•4/30/24, 7:27 PM

nah you're good, I was just looking for anything mentioning d1 alpha (besides the latest one today) and that's all I found, could have sworn it was more recent

somoni•4/30/24, 8:22 PM

is there a tutorial or guide on how to do schema upgrades on a live production site using d1 ? i was not able to find one in the d1 docs. By schema upgrade i mean adding and/or removing fields from a table that would make it backward incompatible with the previous deployed code

Vy•4/30/24, 8:50 PM

I'm working to update various channels but re-worked proposal is:
* With D1 generally available, we're deprecating alpha databases. Clarifying that deprecation does not impact D1 alpha operations, everything still works.
* Users should follow the alpha database migration guide to recreate a new D1 database from their alpha database backup. Following a 3-month deprecation period, D1 alpha databases will stop accepting live SQL queries on August 1, 2024.
* After August 1, 2024, users can still access alpha database backups until the end of 2024.

it would've been awesome to have functions or update hook to listen to changes

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