just started using the various UH60 mods for DCS - what's the best way to get them up and running th

just started using the various UH60 mods for DCS - what's the best way to get them up and running the rhino? (from what I can see some form of force trim seems to have been implememted although not sure)

AArno Hey guys, I have a general question about an emergency stop configuration. My go...

Toddimus•5/6/24, 2:21 PM

That seems reasonable to me. I would just make sure all of the critical bits fail in the open state. I think some solid state relays can fail in the closed state, so that’s bad. Belt and suspenders version would have a secondary pass through another relay. The idea being if one of the relays fails in the closed state, the secondary one will be the fail-safe. Have a look at multi pole contactor relays used in CNC machines.

Toddimus•5/6/24, 2:24 PM

You can set up a momentary button for enable and then it will stay enabled until either a momentary stop or E-stop button breaks the enable circuit. Kinda like logic but done with a relay. I’ll try to find a link to an example circuit.

SShamansky Any F-14 drivers here. I am having two issues since getting Rhino. One of them i...

Touch_Of_Legend•5/6/24, 2:27 PM

I can’t help but I have seen it posted by more than one person about the F14 specifically losing AOA when trying to use Altitude auto pilot?

Again I don’t own F14 so I’m only relaying what I remember but you’re not the first person I’ve seen post this so search for it and maybe you and the other two Tomcats can work together on a solution until some sort of telem patch is sorted out

Arno•5/6/24, 2:27 PM

So you mean the first part of the circuit (the optocouplers) would only be powered after pressing the enable button?

Arno•5/6/24, 2:28 PM

So one optocoupler has the enable button, and powers the emergency stop button, and that powers the optcouplers that control the devices....

Toddimus•5/6/24, 2:29 PM

Essentially, yeah. Optocouplers could fail closed though. Another benefit of using the method I’m talking about is that you can have multiple stop buttons and/or Estop buttons because they are all in a loop, carrying only low power signal.

Arno•5/6/24, 2:35 PM

Maybe I can solve it with a procedure.... like always press the stop button when shutting down, and engage motors only after powering everything up. If some component fails closed, it can be noticed that way..

Mmac22443506 just started using the various UH60 mods for DCS - what's the best way to get th...

LeLv30_Superbus•5/6/24, 2:39 PM

UH-60L mod (v 1.4 I think) doesn't have FFB implementation but TelemFFB force trim does the trick

AArno Maybe I can solve it with a procedure.... like always press the stop button when...

Toddimus•5/6/24, 3:22 PM

Check out this video. You would put one or more Normally Closed momentary buttons to in series with the red button, along with as many Estop switches as you want. The beauty of this is that only the coil control voltage has to run to the switches. Your loads would be run through the main input/output terminals of the contactor. Probably the positive leg of each power circuit. Hopefully this makes sense.

Toddimus•5/6/24, 3:22 PM

https://youtu.be/fSUGuc9SMNY?si=ODD4pRUOv1ivypGr

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Toddimus•5/6/24, 3:26 PM

Extra safety can be had by passing the power signal through two contacts in series. Looping it back through.

Arno•5/6/24, 3:44 PM

But I don't want many switches. I want one e-stop to turn off many devices. So I use the optocouplers so that when the estop opens, many optocouplers open in many low current loops to the devices. The device then has a relay, which will open when no current is coming in through that loop. And thus the device loses its supply which runs through that relay. Most scenarios will interrupt power to the relays.
So I need to consider that either the optocoupler or relay could fail in the closed position. Your suggestion is to double them up in series, to have a reduced probability that both fail closed. I guess if I would want multiple estops, I would simply wire them in series before the optocouplers.

LLeLv30_Superbus UH-60L mod (v 1.4 I think) doesn't have FFB implementation but TelemFFB force tr...

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 4:44 PM

thanks - so this means to get force trim you should select the option in the telem options - also think there is a force trim option in the main rhino software (from memory) do you need to enable both for it to work?

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 4:48 PM

also what does this mean when setting up the module in telem - pretty sure i got the prompt that uh60l was not found when I first run it (so should u be selecting another helicoter to be used (such as teh ah64) to select when the FFB effects for when the mh60 us running or do something else?) - also pretty sure last time I ran it was getting some kind of force/effects through the stick or was this just some kind of default spring effect?

Mmac22443506 also what does this mean when setting up the module in telem - pretty sure i got...

Number481•5/6/24, 4:53 PM

The UH60L has a default profile in TelemFFB. Possible that the additional modded versions have different "names" that would show up un-matched, but its pretty obvious in TelemFFB how to clone from another aircraft if that is the case.

In DCS, the "actual" FFB part is handled natively by the sim. This includes force-trim for helicopters, and dynamic stick forces and trim following for fixed wing.

None of the community mod aircraft support FFB so you have to fake it with hardware force trim using the configurator software.

Fr4Ged•5/6/24, 5:20 PM

I ended up creating a new profile for those FFB-unsupported mods. works well enough.

NNumber481 The UH60L has a default profile in TelemFFB. Possible that the additional modde...

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 5:25 PM

got it - actually I think the profile must have been detected but I set the search parameter to anything with UH60 in it (so thats what I must be getting?) - strangely I dont have force trim (hardware trim) selected in either telem or the main software - but when I flick the force trim switch it "seems" to reslect the centre (so something is happening and the actual centre of the stick is jumping) - is your suggestion to just select the force trim in the telem software or the main rhino option to get force trim to work?

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 5:27 PM

out of interest did you get the show axis box display working? (using ctrl+enter) - seems when I use this key bind nothing appears?

Mmac22443506 got it - actually I think the profile must have been detected but I set the sear...

Number481•5/6/24, 5:41 PM

are you talking about the virtual stick? AFAIK, the "trim release" binding in the helicopter will make the cyclic behave as "instant trim" (but without FFB).. meaning that as soon as you press it, it sets the virtual offset of the stick such that when you release the stick back to center, the virtual stick will be where it was when you pressed the button.

To set it up with hardware force trim, you would want to unbind the in-game force trim and set your configurator up like this... If you also want motorized hat trim, I would unbind the trims in the game and set up the trim override (green boxes) in configurator

NNumber481 are you talking about the virtual stick? AFAIK, the "trim release" binding in t...

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 7:32 PM

thanks - think we are talking about the same thing - 1)by force trim (although some dcs modules call it instant trim in the options) I mean when I release the force trim switch it essentially resets my stick centre(can see my virtual stick in the uh60 move to this new centre) - when I hit the trim reset button it re-centres the virtual stick to the default centre - although interested to know what you mean by this function not having FFB?(as these mods don't support it) - I find with the AH64 for example the stick has no spring in it when I push the trim switch up?

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 7:36 PM

2)weirdly for the uh60 and also the new oh6 mod I have force trim bound in game and I seem to be getting some kind of force trim effect already! (the virtual stick moves to the new centre) even though in the rhino menu I do not have hardware force trim selected? - is your suggestions to clear the force trim/reset bindings in DCS and enable the hardware force trim setting in the rhino menu for the best result? (also if I do this do I need to touch any of the force trim settings in the profile page of the telem software or can I just leave this untouched?)

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 7:38 PM

3)also what is motorized hat trim? (assume this is traditional trim and for fixed wing)

Mmac22443506 thanks - think we are talking about the same thing - 1)by force trim (although s...

Number481•5/6/24, 8:31 PM

I guess I don't understand what you mean.

Without FFB hardware, When you enable "instant trim" for any of the official modules, as soon as you release the force trim button, you need to recenter your physical joystick, because the trimming results in a doubling of your input so that at physical=0,0.. the virtual x,y is whatever you trimmed it to.

WITH FFB hardware, when you press force trim, the spring forces are relieved on the joystick.. when you are done trimming/maneuvering and release the trim button, the spring forces return, centered on the new position. Physical and Virtual stick positions always match.

Neither of these freeware/community mods support FFB. Thus, the stick will not behave as in the 2nd description. You need to use hardware trim to emulate the behavior.

If you enable hardware trim but don't unbind the force-trim in the game, you will end up with an offset spring position but with double the input in the game = bad times.

Regarding hat trim, the IRL Blackhawk has an AFCS system and has motorized hat beep trim, The IRL OH-6 does not have "force trim", but does have hat trim to help alleviate stick forces required to hold the helo at any given attitude

mac22443506OP•5/6/24, 10:43 PM

Thanks 1)for the uh60 will enable the hard ware force trim in the rhino software - do I also have to tick the forcetrim box in the Telem software or can I leave it unchecked?
2)for the hat trim shall enable it in the rhino software (assume force trim simply will not work then?) - still struggling to understand how the hat trim works - but is it like a fixed wing aircraft trim - up trims up?

NNumber481 I guess I don't understand what you mean. ***Without *** FFB hardware, When yo...

mac22443506OP•5/7/24, 1:33 AM

just gave your trim setup suggestions a try on the UH60L - strangely if I unbind the trim controls in game and then enable hardware trim (in the rhino software) and assign buttons - the trim does not seem to function at all with the re-centre position just not registering (which makes the helicopter uncontrollable) when I bind again in game the force trim works ok and I can see from the axis control box the stick centre shift (white box) after I release the force trim button (does not feel as good as the ah64 implementation but it still appears to work ok....) - any help appreciated?

VKNG•5/7/24, 2:56 AM

VKNG•5/7/24, 2:57 AM

mechsicko•5/7/24, 3:19 AM

bgf8f8f8-flat750x075f-pad750x1000f8f8f8.u8.jpg

PiNKSH!T•5/7/24, 4:52 AM

@Thadiun Okona "What is best in life?"

Boggy•5/7/24, 6:34 AM

TToddimus Check out this video. You would put one or more Normally Closed momentary button...

Arno•5/7/24, 7:12 AM

I found a perfect solution for my central emergency stop quest: a modular emergency stop button. This needs to be sticky somewhere on the discord!
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004157851197.html

Arno•5/7/24, 7:32 AM

I think the way this works is - you buy a button which you configure in the order page with 2 modules, the voltage is for the led light in case you chose that. Then you add NO or NC modules if you need more than two contacts they support up to 220v 25A. They stack infintely by the threesome. The LED is a module of its own, so it can be wired in parrallel to one of the stop circuits but can also powered by something like an arduino.

legobirds•5/7/24, 7:59 AM

Hello guys, How to set up the Damper force in Heli trim mode? I wanted to have some strong damper force when holding the trim button in Apache. Now the problem is when holding the trim button, there is no force to hold the stick.

VPforceBot•5/7/24, 8:58 AM

:package:

RHINO #0521 Has Shipped!

AArno I found a perfect solution for my central emergency stop quest: a modular emerge...

Touch_Of_Legend•5/7/24, 9:10 AM

Great find! I love the modular build part of it and how expandable it is!

Arno•5/7/24, 9:47 AM

With the abundance of options, I might just be tempted to have one contact go to an arduino (which is emulating a hid gaming device), which then passes the state of the emergency switch to the PC. When anyone hits the switch, the PC will do a controlled shutdown

Mmac22443506 just gave your trim setup suggestions a try on the UH60L - strangely if I unbind...

Number481•5/7/24, 11:19 AM

you need to make sure everything in the red boxes In the screenshot I posted is enabled. "Sticky" + Hardware Trim + Trim binding.

mac22443506OP•5/7/24, 11:59 AM

Ok - shall have another go (just had the hardware box ticked)

NNumber481 I guess I don't understand what you mean. ***Without *** FFB hardware, When yo...

LeLv30_Superbus•5/7/24, 12:53 PM

I'm about to try the OH-6 for the first time. Not sure whether or not I want a simulated force trim (OH-6 had none). I'll try what trim override feels like. Would it be like the IRL thingy then?

LeLv30_Superbus•5/7/24, 12:54 PM

The hat trim I mean

LLeLv30_Superbus I'm about to try the OH-6 for the first time. Not sure whether or not I want a s...

Number481•5/7/24, 12:56 PM

While I've never flown a IRL helicopter, let alone an OH-6.. for max realism, you would want only the hat-trim overrides in place as the heli does have motorized trim, but does not have traditional "mag brake force trim"

LeLv30_Superbus•5/7/24, 2:31 PM

Couldn't even start the OH-6A, N1 never rises above 18 no matter how long I hold the starter button. Nice cockpit though, I felt right at home in it!

LLeLv30_Superbus Couldn't even start the OH-6A, N1 never rises above 18 no matter how long I hold...

Number481•5/7/24, 2:36 PM

I think you must use the mouse to turn on the fuel in the current 1.1 version.. I saw a bug that the keybind makes the knob move, but it doesn't actually turn on the fuel

SShamansky Any F-14 drivers here. I am having two issues since getting Rhino. One of them i...

Simon2012•5/7/24, 2:45 PM

I don't know if you found or received an answer yet, but I had the same issue (stick in a very forward position) and I found a solution/explanation somewhere in old posts.
I'll see if I find it again

Shamansky•5/7/24, 2:47 PM

I have been to DCS bug forums for F-14 and found two reports regarding this with bug being accepted by dev team but not resolved. Maybe if more people would post after me there?

Shamansky•5/7/24, 2:47 PM

I have enabled FFB special setting for F-14 in its special options.

Shamansky•5/7/24, 2:48 PM

Anyway I am getting S shaped bend extension to get it closer to me

Shamansky•5/7/24, 2:49 PM

As for autopilot not working as expected, no solution

Simon2012•5/7/24, 2:50 PM

Good !
But I remember finding a solution here, only a few settings to change in the VPForce software and the stick would be nicely centered

As for the autopilot, no idea

SShamansky I have been to DCS bug forums for F-14 and found two reports regarding this with...

Number481•5/7/24, 3:07 PM

I dont really fly the F-14, so I'm not very adept at using the autopilot. If I were a betting man, I would say the issue is that their internal calculations that determine whether AP can be enabled is somehow including the joystick position in the calculations, and since the FFB center position is offset from physical X/Y 0, it throws everything off (%100 speculation).

Oddly.. this seems to work

- When set up to engage AP, press the autopilot reference/nosewheel steering button, and then give your stick a little shove forward. The AP seems to activate for me when I do this. However It seems the FFB wants to constantly hunt back and forth for center while AP is engaged.

just started using the various UH60 mods for DCS - what's the best way to get them up and running th

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