He asked for under $150 and no one, including me with the Ender3 suggestion, has given a recommendat
He asked for under $150 and no one, including me with the Ender3 suggestion, has given a recommendation that fits his criteria.
TThere are also plenty of problematic things about the closed Bambu ecosystem too.
HSure. The point is you can get something really good for 200,-. Recommending something far inferior for 150,- would simply be bad advice.
Sometimes the best advise is: Don't do it, save some more.
You can have a different opinion, thats fine, But is seems a broad consensus.
Sometimes the best advise is: Don't do it, save some more.
You can have a different opinion, thats fine, But is seems a broad consensus.
HAlso @TeufelHunden is free to discard the advise if he doesn't find it helpful....
TFar inferior is subjective, that’s my point and I’m sticking to it. I defend Ender 3 because I’ve spent the time to dial it in and it works great. Bambu user defend their printers because they spent the money and it works great.
TBoth work great, but some have abundance of time, some have abundance of money. Rare that anyone has both these days.
CI have no horse in the race, as I don't 3d print. But as a neutral 3rd party you seem to be the only one defending something because it's what you purchased. The others are giving valid advice. Saving up another $50 seems 100% the right call. Although at the budget amount, $50 is a large percentile increase, it should be doable for any that can afford to buy or build a rhino.
TEveryone is defending based on what they purchased. In my opinion negative points brought up about Ender 3 are invalid but that’s because I have experience that says otherwise.
TMy Ender 3 experience is that I get as good as quality prints as Bambu and I saved money.
TMost new users are going to waste a bit of material learning a new printer. One more cost to consider as part of this.
AComing from years with an Ender, I am not looking to bash it. But especially if you are new to 3D printing, just so much time goes into learning how to set up things right. And when you want to go to PETG, even with experience you end up with misprints regularly, you spend time troubleshooting. And in the end you will spend money on upgrades. Just the money I spent to make it more quiet. $150 is a tiny budget to spend on a printer, so you have to make concessions somewhere. I think spending a bit more on a Bambu will save loads of time and frustration.
TSo a Bambu is like a Prusa in terms of quality and maintenance but cheaper, correct?
(using a Prusa MK3S+ the last 2.5 years)
(using a Prusa MK3S+ the last 2.5 years)
SThis talk is all about hardware, but how does one learn what is needed to use the hardware. For instance, if I want to find and use files for belt covers for the Rhino's exposed belts, what is the workflow?
FBasically a bunch of reading, watching youtube videos and doing a lot of trail and error... 
Simplified workflow:
1. Setup printer for the desired filament type (normally there are instructions doing some test prints to decide what parameters to use for temperature, flow rate...). This has to be done once and can be used for further printing
2. Get a description file for the object to be printed. This is normally an STL file. You can create such a file by using CAD software by yourself (FreeCAD, Fusion 360,...) or somebody else already provides this file.
3. You need to define printing parameters for the object like how strong are bottom, top and walls, percentage of infill,... to define how strong the object will be. If somebody alread provided the STL files there are normally recommendations which settings to use.
4. Translation of the STL file to printer specific GCode. This can be done by a program called Slicer. There are several available, normally there is one favourite for each printer brand to be used (Bambu/Orca Slicer, Ultimaker Cura...). In the Slicer you import the STL file, place it on the (virtual) printer plate (orientation can be important), set the parameters defined in step 3 and slice the project. The resulting GCode can be sent to the printer (newer ones using WLAN, older ones USB stick or memory card).
5. Start printing, then wait and hope everything is running smooth...
Simplified workflow:
1. Setup printer for the desired filament type (normally there are instructions doing some test prints to decide what parameters to use for temperature, flow rate...). This has to be done once and can be used for further printing
2. Get a description file for the object to be printed. This is normally an STL file. You can create such a file by using CAD software by yourself (FreeCAD, Fusion 360,...) or somebody else already provides this file.
3. You need to define printing parameters for the object like how strong are bottom, top and walls, percentage of infill,... to define how strong the object will be. If somebody alread provided the STL files there are normally recommendations which settings to use.
4. Translation of the STL file to printer specific GCode. This can be done by a program called Slicer. There are several available, normally there is one favourite for each printer brand to be used (Bambu/Orca Slicer, Ultimaker Cura...). In the Slicer you import the STL file, place it on the (virtual) printer plate (orientation can be important), set the parameters defined in step 3 and slice the project. The resulting GCode can be sent to the printer (newer ones using WLAN, older ones USB stick or memory card).
5. Start printing, then wait and hope everything is running smooth...
FI think I can agree to that. Bambu Lab printers were originally in almost the same price range as Prusa, but this summer they celebrated some anniversary and did a massive price reduction (maybe there are also some new models in the pipeline). There is an intersting video of a printer farm owner comparing Prusa and Bambu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Esrxt7GII
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HAs I said, I‘m a former Ender 3 user as well. And I agree that you can achieve good results with it, but it ain‘t easy. And you can’t tune away the slowness. The tech has simply advanced and the ender isn’t up to date anymore.
CI think as someone has summarized it: your choice of 3d printer depends on whether you're interested in 3d printing or 3d printering - tinkering with 3d printers, getting them set up just so, etc.
Something like an Ender 3 can definitely be tuned to create great prints, but it may require a fair bit of fine tuning, possibly making some modifications to it, etc. If you're happy to spend time and effort learning and doing all those things, that's a perfectly fine choice.
Something like an Ender 3 can definitely be tuned to create great prints, but it may require a fair bit of fine tuning, possibly making some modifications to it, etc. If you're happy to spend time and effort learning and doing all those things, that's a perfectly fine choice.
DI'll just add that you should make sure you get one big enough to print what you want to build. The Proto DIY Rhino for example, needs at least 190mm I believe. Check the parts and specs yourself first.
WI just so happen to be printing those tonight on my P1S as my Rhino is coming next week, and I’m not a expert as I’ve only just got it, but as these are just covers and don’t need to be very strong there’s not a lot to think about for them at least.
So, double click the .stl file, it opens in the slicer program, which I’m just using Bambu Labs own Bambu Studio, I right click the model and change which filament I want to use if it’s not the default as I have four filaments that can be automatically loaded into the printer.
Again, doesn’t need to be strong so I’ve just left most of the settings default including the amount of infill to 15%. The only thing I did was lower the speeds of the different parts that make up the build as it really doesn’t add much time, about 20 minutes in this case.
Then as these have a few overhangs I’ve switched on the supports function and made sure the filament used for the supports is the same as I’m using for the model as I have plenty of the black PLA+ filament, and as I’ve still got some of the Support PLA filament the printer comes with for the bit of the supports that actually touches the model that breaks away a bit more cleanly when the print is finished I make sure that is selected for that part.
So, double click the .stl file, it opens in the slicer program, which I’m just using Bambu Labs own Bambu Studio, I right click the model and change which filament I want to use if it’s not the default as I have four filaments that can be automatically loaded into the printer.
Again, doesn’t need to be strong so I’ve just left most of the settings default including the amount of infill to 15%. The only thing I did was lower the speeds of the different parts that make up the build as it really doesn’t add much time, about 20 minutes in this case.
Then as these have a few overhangs I’ve switched on the supports function and made sure the filament used for the supports is the same as I’m using for the model as I have plenty of the black PLA+ filament, and as I’ve still got some of the Support PLA filament the printer comes with for the bit of the supports that actually touches the model that breaks away a bit more cleanly when the print is finished I make sure that is selected for that part.
WThen I press on the Preview tab, make sure it creates the G-code without errors or any issues, and then press on Print Plate and off it goes, and so far all has been good, I’ve printed over 20 items in the last 9 days including the main pulley for the Virpil rudder pedals FFB mod earlier today by Number481, I sent it to print, went to work (yes there was someone in the house just in case) and it had finished the same time I finished work, no hassle.
All in all there’s a bit to learn, but the reason I went with a Bambu Labs printer is there’s supposed to be less fussing around getting prints to work well, and that’s what I’ve seen many people say including a lot of people coming from Ender 3’s and though I’m only going by what they have said as I have not used that printer myself, I feel I understand what they mean already.
Let’s make one thing clear though, mainstream home 3D printing is still in its infancy, and even years from now 3D printing will still involve some level of tinkering and maintenance.
All in all there’s a bit to learn, but the reason I went with a Bambu Labs printer is there’s supposed to be less fussing around getting prints to work well, and that’s what I’ve seen many people say including a lot of people coming from Ender 3’s and though I’m only going by what they have said as I have not used that printer myself, I feel I understand what they mean already.
Let’s make one thing clear though, mainstream home 3D printing is still in its infancy, and even years from now 3D printing will still involve some level of tinkering and maintenance.
TDon’t get me wrong, Bambu is a nicer machine, but at 2-4x the cost I would expect it to be. But I also think that everything that makes it better is a luxury, speed included. If you can live without the luxuries and need to save money, Ender is great.
SAs an interim alternative are there any 3D printing services that could be recommended for someone located in the western USA?
FI'm from Europe, so I can't help with that. But from my experience the 3D printing services are quite expensive, so after maybe 15 or 20 ordered parts (of course depending on size and material) you spent already the money for a small 3D printer.
RBambu is Hank g sale starting
Monday. I’m going full in x1c
Monday. I’m going full in x1c
WYeah, on that note those Rhino pulley covers, I’ve done one now, half way through the second one, looks like it’ll cost me less than two quid in filament I think, whereas to buy them from QR4Rigs it’s £32.25 with delivery in the UK.
FLooks like a good time to buy! What are your reasons going with the X1C instead of the P1S?
FQR4Rigs has really great products, but after equiping my hole rig with quick releases I ended up at £600 - without taxes and shipping to EU... But after some hours work in FreeCAD I have now DIY quick releases, costs including the trail and error filament maybe 80 EUR.
JCare to share your designs? 
HBut you did pick up, that I was specifically speaking about the A1 mini? Nothing else. That goes for 199,-
HOf course you can’t print very big parts (>180mm) with it. That’s the downside.
FI would love to, but as the design is "heavily inspired" by the QR4Rigs products I have strong legal concerns to make it public... Sorry!
RBut you designed your qr-system from scratch, didn't you? So you did not copy any plans or whatsoever. I see no problem designing a competitive product and sharing it - otherwise we would have lots of monopolies out there
R(by the way, I would also be interested 
)
)
FThe CAD design is from scratch, but the shape and size of all parts is the same as theirs - was enough work to do that so I didn't want to create a new design just to find out it's not working for some reason. The Ultra parts are 10h prints so you don't want to go for a lot of iterations. So maybe it's a grey zone, but to be honest I don't wanna find that out... Another thing is that just providing STL files will not work as the gap between the brackets and sliding parts depends on the 3D printer - first tests on a FLSUN V400 needed a gap around 0.15mm, with the Bambu Lab P1S I am using now the gap is 0.04mm (!) - out of the box that kind of precision is really impressive!
RIt’s onsale and in my budget lol. Like the extra features too. Was looking at the qidi plus 4 also.
RI’m coming from an Ender 3 pro. Getting into abs and asa for medical training products that need to be outdoor and stand up to some stress. Will probably proof everything in pla and petg first.
RWas thinking about the ams too but not sure I’ll use it as nothing I can think of would need more than one filament unless I want to use a different filament as a support or layer for ease of final completion
AIt depends on how often you are going to do multi material prints. It is really inefficient the way bambu does it, with the constant loading and unloading, time and material wise. So I opted against it on my P1S. My use case would also be support printing, and occasional text. Right now I have all my filament in a big airtight container with moisture absorbing granular and a bowden feed right from the box. I think I'll keep it that way.
BUnless you need something very special that rely on having different materials with different properties you don't really need multi material prints.
If its for simple colour its better to print cheap grey and learn to paint.
If its for simple colour its better to print cheap grey and learn to paint.
FI was also thinking about X1C and P1S and decided to go for the P1S and upgrade extruder and nozzle to hardened steel when needed (doing 99% of my prints in PETG at the moment). I decided that I don't really need the other additional features of the X1C and they are not worth the additional price. I took the AMS - and I am really happy with it! Not for multicolor prints (as Arno said, that's just a waste of filament), but the automated loading of the filament is really, really nice. And I could not stop smiling seeing the first time the run out of one filemant spool and the automated switch to the second one - that's amazing! No more weighing (is there enough on the spool for this print??), no more spools with just a few filament remains on it, a good place to keep four spools dry - I'm loving it!
FThe only disadvantage of the AMS is that my favourite filament brand has a little bend to fix the end on the spool, that does not fit through the AMS. So I have to catch the last layer of filament on the spool to get access to the end and cut the last cm off. That can easily be done during printing.
AI also went for P1S and bought the hardened steel bits separately. Adavntage of the X1C is the faster processor, allowing for a better camera feed, and better build chamber temperature control
AAnd of course the better screen and lidar, but I didn't see value in that for myself.
BI have 2 Rhinos: a DIY Rhino clone and a ready-made device from VPforce.com. Are the default values in the expert settings of the VPForce FFB configurator identical for both devices? The power supply units are almost identical.
WI’m glad I got the AMS with my P1S too, not just for the automatic loading and changing of filament but also what that means for supports as after doing a few prints with and without using the Support filament the printer comes with for the interface between supports and the printed object I’m going to be using that more as I just had one print where I couldn’t get all of the support off using the same filament as the build and had to file it down to fit something in it.
I didn’t use it for this print as it would have made the print take a lot longer as it was a curved overhang, then did a another print with the Support filament as interface and it’s just so nice how it comes off, lesson learnt, sometimes it’s worth the wait.
As for wasted filament, how else are you to do multi-filament prints, unless your printer has multiple extruders that’s unavoidable, and there are multiple ways to reduce that or use it to make something else.
As for P1S vs X1C, from a lot of the comparisons and suggestions online the lidar and better camera, etc just isn’t worth it for the vast majority of people, the lidar doesn’t even always work and when it does the differences it makes are tiny, and yes the touch screen is nice, but you are not really going to be using it much. It’s setting up the print at a computer to make sure all the settings are as you want them and then sending it to the printer, and then using the mobile app maybe which can do what that screen does, so I don’t use the screen. It’s just not worth it the big jump in price.
I didn’t use it for this print as it would have made the print take a lot longer as it was a curved overhang, then did a another print with the Support filament as interface and it’s just so nice how it comes off, lesson learnt, sometimes it’s worth the wait.
As for wasted filament, how else are you to do multi-filament prints, unless your printer has multiple extruders that’s unavoidable, and there are multiple ways to reduce that or use it to make something else.
As for P1S vs X1C, from a lot of the comparisons and suggestions online the lidar and better camera, etc just isn’t worth it for the vast majority of people, the lidar doesn’t even always work and when it does the differences it makes are tiny, and yes the touch screen is nice, but you are not really going to be using it much. It’s setting up the print at a computer to make sure all the settings are as you want them and then sending it to the printer, and then using the mobile app maybe which can do what that screen does, so I don’t use the screen. It’s just not worth it the big jump in price.
LUnless the DIY plan you followed states otherwise, I think you can start with
RHINO-defaults.vpconf. Builders at 🔧diy-builds please correct me if I'm wrong.
BSo "Reset Config" basically leads to correct results? Where are these values stored? In the individual device?
LMine is in ... \VPforce_FFB_Configurator_v1.0.16-1\configs
LOh you mean where they go when you apply? In the devices I guess.
NNo, "Reset Config" will take it back to board defaults. You want to import the rhino default config from the path Fourgrinder said.
BThe default values are therefore stored in the respective Rhino board.
