[Discussion] FoxFibre and the Actual Differences of Expensive Tshirts
Evening folks.
Just visited Japan and bought two Wonder Looper t-shirts after being hyped up by Iron Snail. Also I just liked how they felt. The shirts are:
https://wonderlooper.com/collections/foxfibre%C2%AE-tsuriami-t-shirt/products/crewneck-t-shirt-foxfibre-tsuriami-coyote-70
https://wonderlooper.com/collections/double-heavyweigh-t-shirt/products/double-heavyweight-crewneck-t-shirt-white
The double heavyweight has a striking 'handfeel' that puts it aside from most tshirts I've worn, and the foxfibre is a beautiful color, if not a little scratchy to wear due to what I'm going to assume is seeds stuck in the fabric. These newer tshirts feel more like fashion pieces, the way they're priced. You have to treat them delicately, would be a nightmare to stain, probably don't stand up in the washer and cannot be dried normally or else you risk shrinkage.
So far, even though I love the feel of the shirts, I dont understand why they are so expensive and why they are so lauded. This goes for all expensive tshirts, in the 80-145 range.
Usually I get my Tshirts from Uniqlo -- I find their Oversized Airism tshirts to look quite good on me, feel great, don't get overly sweaty even when its hot, and are near indestructible (they can be beat to shit in the washer and dried normally).
In your guy's opinions, what are the actual, tangible differences between the cheap and expensive tshirts?
Thanks,
Walker
52 Replies
IMO if you're looking for differences in durability at a certain price point you're facing significant diminishing returns.
Its really your choice to be precious with these shirts. Myself and a handful of other people here will willingly toss a $500 sweater into the washing machine because it's really not a big deal. Stain removal isn't difficult, repairs aren't impossible, and wearing the thing is more important. But these are all totally subjective and decisions that have to be made on an individual basis.
Fox fiber is kind of an insane material. The company has been breeding cotton that is naturally dyed. Allegedly each color takes 10 years of breeding to bring to market . that is expensive and the yield is going to be much lower than for conventional cotton. Especially because it’s also organically grown. The reason to own that fabric is because it’s got a cool story not because it’s the most practical
I figure at the higher pricepoint you get into the diminishing returns territory. I've always wanted to have an actual, decent shirt. The double heavyweight personally feels like it's worth the 120 pricetag (I got it for 100 in japan due to exchange rates) with how tankish it feels. It truly feels different to me. The Foxfibre I like knowing is dyed naturally, as in it has no dye in it (apparently?).
I'm assuming at this pricepoint people will pick what they like for these little details.
Also idk wtf is up with the japanese and creating expensive boutique clothing with antique machines. Fashion is just so different over there
imo durability has very little correlation with prices so long you get out of like shein territory
--in a good way. When I lived there for 3 years I tried to soak in as much fashion as I could.
its more about the design choices the company makes
you can get dirt cheap super durable fabric, but brands make design choices to attain certain feels and looks that may or may not be good for pure durability
That makes sense
You are paying for details you don't get or are hard to find in specific combinations elsewhere. How you value these is up to you.
Fwiw "drying normally" is air/hang drying in a ton of the world. It's the US that's obsessed with using a destructive dryer that damages clothes.
I suppose since I am (very relatively) new to fashion and boutique stuff, it's hard for me to understand the real differences between something cheap like Uniqlo for both tshirts and jeans and something more expensive, like Wonder Looper or Sunspel for shirts and Oni/N&F for jeans
of course there is still some variability in that certain fabric to do correct may cost more, and cheaping out on certain processes can reduce durability
but even t hen you're not talking about more expensive than mall brands
as an american i think its because we like stuff done quickly
anything above that is really just fashion/story/sustainability etc. that you're paying for
for denim for example, you're just paying for interesting fabrics that brands go out of their way to make in low quantities
so you're just not seeing economies of scale
and using older tech (like natural indigo dyeing and old shuttle looms) that costs more
but gives you a fashion effect in terms of fading/texture that isn't actually any good for durability really
The loopwheel thing is interesting
i'm not into loopwheeled shirts, but my understanding is just that its an older knitting process that eliminates the side seam and uses lower tension so you get a certain hand feel
I am not a huge fan however of things being expensive just bcus the japanese do it, after having lived there I mean
but neither of those have much to do with durability
it costs more mainly because the machines are much slower than modern ones
Yeah i mean that's not new. Products sold internationally are generally more expensive outside of their country of origin.
and again, probably less economies of scale + manufacturing in an expensive country
I see
Alright then thanks you guys I uh, hm. What I'm getting from this is what you said above + paying for something you want specifically as opposed to off the rack stuff
yeah when you pay more its for things like the story, environment, and getting certain fashion details that are more niche
at least when talking about anything above mall level brands
for the most part
That being said mall brands are also pretty expensive. I paid 120 for a shirt but you can pay 100 for something that disintegrates after first wash, too
Yes because cost has no bearing on durability.
definitely can vary a lot since theres a lot of complexity in branding and companies wanting to push trendy stuff
I mean kinda, right?
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here's a fun video on a abercrombie t-shirt breakdown
about why it would fall apart super fast
so much fabric :(
Maybe t-shirts is just a category that isn't that important to you. I'm in the same boat where I consider them to be ultimately disposable, so basically all my t-shirts are Uniqlo. The few that aren't have interesting features (like the 18 East Grahame), but even those aren't they expensive. I know I have other stuff that I'd rather spend money on than a black t-shirt 🤷♂️
I dont know if they're important quite yet, I was mostly trying to figure out if there was something truly different about things as they got more and more expensive
Since in my mind there's a limit to where things cost a lot/are good products
Pricing on stuff like Wonder Looper def has do with unusual/expensive materials and smaller production runs
The uhh diminishing returns stuff
fwiw, for denim if you're concerned with durability, the most important things are don't get stretch denim, and find the right fit that makes sure the fabric doesn't need to strain to stretch or rub on itself when walking especially in the crotch
and if you do get stretch denim, never throw it in the dryer
because the heat degrades elastane really fast
Hm
Maybe thats why all my uniqlo jeans have their crotches blown out within thefirst year
Also I'm losing weight .. have thick thighs
the dimishing returns stuff is not the right way to think about clothes
well more like its not the only way
its a very limiting lens
the fit one is big, thats why you have people who have the same jeans and their jeans last for years
then other people it blows out in 3 months
for example, i've pretty much always been 6 ft tall and ~135 pounds for the past 10 years
and have never experienced a crotch blowout
not with the levis i used to wear or any of my fancier stuff now
the butt wears out first presumably from sitting
I'm 230 at 5'9
Im big boy
BUTT wears out first??? WHAT
Oh very useful
worth considering
- cost is a relative number
- a retailer can charge whatever price they want for an item for whatever reason, which may or may not include durability or comfort
- just because something retails for a lot of money doesn't mean you have to spend a lot to own it; waiting for sales, buying secondhand, looking for less known alternatives, etc all are viable strategies
i agree with the general idea that "quality" of a t-shirt hits diminishing returns and you're eventually paying for things like design or supporting the brand ETA or ethical/sustainable production; how important those are is up to you
Yeah i think divorcing the ideas of quality and durability are useful in this discussion & your line of thinking OP
if durability of a t-shirt is important to you, i'd encourage searching the discord, as there's several threads of people searching for their ideal t-shirt and in most cases within a small budget
and in deciding what exactly is a good price for you
By durability I mostly meant like
Stuff that doesn't feel cheap
That's subjective of course. The uniqlo tshirts to me don't 'feel' cheap
they aren't cheap
Cheaper than most tshirts I see outside of fruit of the loom and kirkland I mean. Even off the rack mall shirts are like 40 dollars+ these days
It may have already been said but with expensive shirts what I’m paying for is design and fabrics, anything above really low end shirts should be pretty decent quality, I have $100+ tees but I own them because I love the fit and the hemp fabric feels really nice, not because I think it’s gonna last longer than my cheaper tees
the difference is almost always design and rarely "quality"
lemaire trousers are not 10x better than the cos knockoffs. Docs are iconic because of the shape and history and not because they're well made
To bring it full circle, Iron Snail says that sometimes pricey artisanal Japanese pieces are objectively worse in durability. They use special, short staple cotton, and it’s weaved in machines that create a looser weave.
for tshirts specifically, I don't think it's worth your time to get bogged down in all these details unless you really, really love t-shirts. Obsessed with them. Reading this thread, it sounds like you just want a nice tee. Knowing all this niche info will not make that search easier. Asking for recs within a budget or, better yet, back reading one of the thousand tshirts threads that already exist will be much more helpful to you.
I gotcha. I already got some objectively expensive t's with my trip to japan and honestly I'm satisfied with what I got. I do like the double heavyweight from wonderlooper and the foxfibre I got. I dont think I'll be spending much more money on expensive t's until I really need to, now
my one kirkland blank looks and feels good to me 🤷
but i think the important thing is you found something worth spending your money on that makes you feel good, and that's pretty much the goal
That's more the cause, if you're commonly getting crotch blowouts it's almost always due to build
Not a comment on anyone's body type to be clear, just affects wear patterns since it creates a friction point
For me, anything 100+ has to be a knit tee like Fujito makes. It’s a much nicer garment and you don’t feel like you got ripped off at least. Now if it’s got linen/wool/silk in it then it’s a different story. For my regular tees I stay around $60 with Lady White.