Internal structure of 86BLF motor. Nice chunky copper windings, lots of mass for heat absorption/dis

Internal structure of 86BLF motor. Nice chunky copper windings, lots of mass for heat absorption/dissipation - perfect for FFB

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 12:53 PM

Greetings all:

walmisOP•5/14/22, 12:54 PM

Greetings!

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:41 PM

I'm interested in creating a Huey simpit and have been seeking an acceptable FFB stick to use as a cyclic for years.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:41 PM

The main thing I'm after is an acceptable "Force Trim" feature.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:43 PM

Ideally I like to source a B8 grip but in it's absence I assume Virpil's "WarBRD" will be acceptable: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-grip.html

VPC WarBRD Grip

★ Perfect Match for the VPC WarBRD Base
★ Programmable LED Lighting
★ Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock
★ Compatible with all VPC Bases
★ 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:55 PM

Will all I need be your Rhino FFB base and this WarBRD grip, or are there other components that are also necessary?

walmisOP•5/14/22, 2:34 PM

If you get the Rhino base then only the grip is necessary. There's also motor kits that you can use to implement your own mechanics.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:35 PM

Cool, I'll order the Rhino base then.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:35 PM

Does it need AC power at all?

walmisOP•5/14/22, 2:36 PM

I can include a power supply, unless you have your own 19-24V 150-200W

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:37 PM

I don't have one, so if you could supply one that would be great.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:38 PM

I live in Australia but will be able to get my own cable if you find the AU socket hard to source.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:39 PM

I assume the power supply uses a standard "kettle" or "figure 8" cord, yeah?

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:41 PM

I see you don't recommend using an extension. Is there any reason for that?

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:41 PM

And if there's no problem with using an extension are there any simple screw in options available?

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:43 PM

Actually I see Virpil have a few options on their site themselves.

walmisOP•5/14/22, 2:56 PM

The base can accept a 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector or an XT60. I'm thinking on moving to XT60 on later rhinos. If you can get a power supply locally then it would be much simpler. Since I can only get an EU plug here atm. I do not recommend an extension simply because it will attenuate the FFB forces. I intended the rhino to be used lifted above the ground, since that gives good force/weight balance for the whole unit :) The whole package is 4.8 kg. The torque is about 5 Nm, so you can roughly calculate the force in kg for a given extension arm. Current pivot to grip thread distance is ~15cm.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:57 PM

Okay, makes sense.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:58 PM

I see there are several 3D prints available on Thingyverse so I could always experiment with a few options.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 3:11 PM

Okay, looks like I've found a suitable power supply: https://www.mantisfpv.com.au/toolkitrc-adp-180mb-180w-2-34a-power-supply-adapter-with-xt60-output/

MantisFPV

ToolKitRC ADP-180MB 180W 2.34A Power Supply Adapter With XT60 Outpu...

Compatible with most chargers on the market the ToolKitRC ADP-180MB features 180W of power output, with an XT60 connector ready to plug in to the M8, M8s or M6D charger series.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 3:13 PM

BTW, which serial number are you up to?
Any chance I could hold out till you make "item 42":

walmisOP•5/14/22, 3:21 PM

Yeah, that psu looks spot on :)

walmisOP•5/14/22, 3:22 PM

I currently only have 20 plates for s/n :D

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 4:55 AM

@s.bartfast even if you have to use an extension for your project, the Rhino has plenty of power, force trim will work just fine. by the way, i'm using a 24V 10A laptop power supply...

Slartibartfast•5/15/22, 6:16 AM

That's good.

Slartibartfast•5/15/22, 6:17 AM

As I say, the main feature I'm hoping for is "force trim" in helis, so hopefully even a relatively light force would be enough for that.

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 6:22 AM

it's working like a charm in the Huey. with the configurator software you can tune the power, set it and forget it, saved and stored in the firmware. the stick can be very stiff if trimmed, as much as you like. holding down the trim button releases the forces and the stick becomes "light" for maneuvering.

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 6:35 AM

DCS's FFB implementation is a hidden gem since the release of Blackshark over a decade ago. standard stick users don't have any idea what they are missing.

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 2:03 PM

have spent almost 3 days now with the Rhino, going through all DCS modules and really appreciate how much finesse and smart design decisions @walmis put into it. it's an excellent joystick base, simply awesome.

FFlashgod_VR DCS's FFB implementation is a hidden gem since the release of Blackshark over a ...

Otto•5/15/22, 2:46 PM

That's completely true.... Once you realize ffb... You never go back. You can't. It just isn't the same.

Wwalmis The base can accept a 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector or an XT60. I'm thinking on mov...

Vladinsky•5/15/22, 2:52 PM

Does 5Nm refer to the motor output or after the reduction?

VVladinsky Does 5Nm refer to the motor output or after the reduction?

walmisOP•5/15/22, 2:52 PM

Yes, after reduction

Vladinsky•5/15/22, 2:53 PM

Great, thanks

walmisOP•5/15/22, 3:13 PM

Almost finished implementing button remapping support

Otto•5/15/22, 3:47 PM

Pretty sure this goes without saying, I am really excited for what's to come as this gets better and better. And more people get involved in experiencing ffb. Absolutely cool.

Bowser•5/16/22, 12:07 PM

My question is for the Hornet. Is the FBW artificial feel modeled for ffb? Like stick force per G, stick force per AOA, ect.

walmisOP•5/16/22, 12:11 PM

The ED implementation is pretty basic iirc, I'll need to do some more testing. It will be possible to add such effects via DCS telemetry, though.

walmisOP•5/16/22, 12:13 PM

If you guys have any documentation in that regard, G/AoA vs force curves etc, throw it my way, will be useful

Flashgod_VR•5/16/22, 12:52 PM

very roughly compiled... as standard FFB effects, directly from DCS you'll get:

Warbirds:

flight surface pressure depending on speed (stick is limb on ground, pressure builds up during start...)
stall effect (stick rattling)

Cold War Era:

stick center offset (F-5E, A10C, F-14 ...)
stick offset through trimming
autopilot features take full control over the stick (Mig21 ...)

Helicopters:

full force trim (stick offsets and hold in position)
trim button released means forces are applied
trim button depressed means forces are off (for maneuvering)
important, forget about the Gazelle, this module is a fail

modern Jets:

standard stick functionality (spring effect)

some modules also feature additional effects like rolling on ground bounce, airframe shaking etc. (F-14's additional FFB effects are awesome!)

all this can be enriched with telemetry output interpretation feedback into the base, like Walmis mentioned above. basically what simshaker for aviators does for jetseat pads and bass shakers...

FFlashgod_VR very roughly compiled... as standard FFB effects, directly from DCS you'll get: ...

walmisOP•5/16/22, 12:53 PM

Thanks for a very nice summary!

Otto•5/16/22, 12:59 PM

Would it be worth having a save function for separate aircraft such as helicopters, warbirds, modern jets, to have each individual settings for how much those force are felt. And all three can be saved to the board after you've test flown and adjusted those settings to your liking in each of those birds? Does that make sense?

Otto•5/16/22, 12:59 PM

I should've said category of aircraft.

Flashgod_VR•5/16/22, 1:01 PM

for now, DCS has intensity settings for trim forces and effect forces for each module in axis control options. here you can basically set fine nuances for every module.

BBowser My question is for the Hornet. Is the FBW artificial feel modeled for ffb? Li...

Vladinsky•5/16/22, 1:02 PM

This is modeled, but it happens on the FCS side. The hornet stick has feel springs for the artificial feel, it doesn't change.

Flashgod_VR•5/16/22, 1:03 PM

the telemetry stuff would need different profiles in the VPforce software...

FFlashgod_VR for now, DCS has intensity settings for trim forces and effect forces for each m...

Otto•5/16/22, 1:04 PM

That's true... I've yet to have played with those. Guess now that we'll have a stronger feedback, we'll have a purpose for using those features in DCS.

FFlashgod_VR the telemetry stuff would need different profiles in the VPforce software...

walmisOP•5/16/22, 1:04 PM

I'm still thinking how to go about implementing it

walmisOP•5/16/22, 1:04 PM

Maybe some sort of easy scripting support

FFlashgod_VR the telemetry stuff would need different profiles in the VPforce software...

Otto•5/16/22, 1:04 PM

Right... That's what I had in mind.

Flashgod_VR•5/16/22, 1:04 PM

@rcflyer40t yeah, it's basically a balance setting.

Internal structure of 86BLF motor. Nice chunky copper windings, lots of mass for heat absorption/dis

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