i hope you guys are aware that a ffb stick is more a piece of machinery compared against a stick in
i hope you guys are aware that a ffb stick is more a piece of machinery compared against a stick in a real aircraft. it can be dangerous.
VAbsolutely, I've had the opportunity to use some high power FFB wheels and they're quite something
Fyeah, those are wrist breakers and ffb sticks can turn into melee weapons ;)
Fdcs player knocked out by joystick... 
WI saw a forum post by someone who mentioned they booted up msfs with the 'push stick back on spawn' option on spawn checked, ouch...
WGonna try not to repeat that one.
Vyikes
VMight be a good idea to position the stick in such a way that you're never in danger of that, regardless for base power
WYea, definitely want some beefy physical endstops to prevent unwanted attacks.
Fstill remember my first hours with the G940, had it simply standing on the desk, testing ffb effects... it is very light, compared against the rhino, much weaker power but still wanted to hop from the desk
WYea. I've got a sidewinder I'm using as a ghetto shifter and I'ts heavy enough to keep itself down but it has a fair bit of impulse.
WInteresting discussion here 
I'll chime in. So yeah there are couple of design decisions and compromises for the Rhino. I wanted to make a more accessible base and to keep the weight down while having decent forces. If it beats a Brunner offering then it's a win for me. And the shipping costs worldwide go exponentially with weight 
So material selection was based on that idea also. So I consider the Rhino as the 'advanced' entry level FFB device and once this project grows, I'll have more resources to start offering more PRO solutions.
I'll chime in. So yeah there are couple of design decisions and compromises for the Rhino. I wanted to make a more accessible base and to keep the weight down while having decent forces. If it beats a Brunner offering then it's a win for me. And the shipping costs worldwide go exponentially with weight So material selection was based on that idea also. So I consider the Rhino as the 'advanced' entry level FFB device and once this project grows, I'll have more resources to start offering more PRO solutions.
W86BLF04 motors with 10:1 reduction should generate up to 40-50Nm
WI had this reduction scheme on my first prototype base, 1:25 iirc Even the 57BLF did provide 5-6kg at the stick (=20-30Nm)
Even the 57BLF did provide 5-6kg at the stick (=20-30Nm)
W
Wpivot to stick base ~38cm
WVery impressive as always! I can definitely see the reasoning behind the design decisions with the rhino aimed at advanced entry level, looks like you've got a really nice niche.
WI do have one question regarding the motor specs. According to the data from the manufacturer you posted above the 86BLF04 has a continuous torque rating of 1.4 Nm, and a peak rating of 4.2.
How much do the motors heat up when running at peak current? Is it a significant factor?
How much do the motors heat up when running at peak current? Is it a significant factor?
Wwell, leaving them running at 30A will heat them up in 5 minutes or so, but they have so much thermal mass, that with active cooling that's no problem.
WAfter testing they were still warm after a couple of hours lol
WLiterally bricks
WThey absorb about 100-120W at the peak
WI see, as long as the average current is below the maximum the cooling can handle, it should be mostly fine? (within limits of course)
I'm sure the inrunner design helps with heat dissipation. Lots of easy thermal access to the stator windings.
I'm sure the inrunner design helps with heat dissipation. Lots of easy thermal access to the stator windings.
WYeah, that's absolutely correct
WWCertainly quite beefy.
BI read a good book about the early days of flight simulation with NACA and NASA. They sometimes used hydraulic FFB sticks and the test pilots absolutely hated them and a few were borderline nervous around them.
The analogue computers driving the hydraulics would sometimes do weird and unexpected things, causing the sticks to bite them in painful areas of their anatomy....
The analogue computers driving the hydraulics would sometimes do weird and unexpected things, causing the sticks to bite them in painful areas of their anatomy....
RWhen I worked in flight simulation they had just transitioned from analogue to digital control loading. It was an absolute marvel of engineering. The basic hardware was the same (hydraulics and strain gauges); but the software that controlled it was written in microcode (into a special modified processor that had writable control store) so it could run at 500hz. That's right - the CPU was modified so that they could write software in microcode.
There was a big emphasis on safety and if anything was out by a very small margin then the controls would disengage. What you have to realise is that when the controls were disengaged (from the hydraulics) the stick would move freely.
Quite often during development (and sometimes during training) you'd be flying along and suddenly the controls would disengage. The noise was very distinctive as the hydraulic pressure was rapidly dumped.
Once when I was working on the Swiss Hawk the controls guy had got his signs inverted; so it was effectively a positive feedback loop. So as he pulled back the force was inverted which moved the stick forwards which increased the force being applied. Net result was being pulled into the HUD assembly. Normally as a force was measured on the strain gauge the software would move the stick in the appropriate direction and it would feel as though you were moving the stick when in fact it was the software that moved the stick.
There was a big emphasis on safety and if anything was out by a very small margin then the controls would disengage. What you have to realise is that when the controls were disengaged (from the hydraulics) the stick would move freely.
Quite often during development (and sometimes during training) you'd be flying along and suddenly the controls would disengage. The noise was very distinctive as the hydraulic pressure was rapidly dumped.
Once when I was working on the Swiss Hawk the controls guy had got his signs inverted; so it was effectively a positive feedback loop. So as he pulled back the force was inverted which moved the stick forwards which increased the force being applied. Net result was being pulled into the HUD assembly. Normally as a force was measured on the strain gauge the software would move the stick in the appropriate direction and it would feel as though you were moving the stick when in fact it was the software that moved the stick.
WThose are some pretty neat anecdotes.
Sso which grips are we up to now with implementation?
WVirpil T-50CM2, Constellation Alpha, WarBRD tested
W@sko2408 Which one do you have?
![[JGF]Speedtrip](https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/594466474672783360/962d94d9faa863fa77d6d84f877a4d7c.webp?size=40)
[Vkb
WI have ordered VKB mounting adapters, but for VKB will require the black box to read out the buttons.
![[BSD] Ogre](https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/769314244600004641/6f259ce31ff13e4ebe3125223d0ee7b0.webp?size=40)
[Don't forget the Thrustmaster Warthog that I am using - works great as a generic Grip
WYeah, Thrustmaster grips are simple and work fine as Generic ones
BIf you would like I could send you a Realsimulator F-18 grip to test
WThanks, but I think that it should also work with the generic profile if it has the thrustmaster interface
SI have a vkb, but I'm selling my entire stick so I'll have to buy a replacement. Problem with virpil is they're out of stock, I guess I can get a thrustmaster, I do like the winwing f16 grip with the extra buttons. The alpha from virpil has alot of options which I like,but out of stock
AVirpil order times aren't catastrophic if you order out of stock items
Ait took maybe a few weeks for me
[You are replacing your vkb with a virpil stick. Bad choice
![[JGF]Speedtrip](https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/594466474672783360/962d94d9faa863fa77d6d84f877a4d7c.webp?size=16)
SI'm replacing my vkb with this vforce rhino ,but I have to buy a new grip
GIf you are in the US and want a Virpil T-50 I'll sell you mine. Brand new. Only tested on my self built FFB unit with VPForce Motors. I bought it for the direct integration, but like my VKB better so I went back to that.
AI don't know if I understood correctly, but it should be possible to use vkb stuffs with the rhino, at least in the furure?
SI'm selling my entire vkb stick and replacing it with the rhino. However, the rhino doesn't come with the grip only the stick. So I'll have to buy a grip for it since I'm selling the entire vkb unit.
Ayou should ask walmis, but it should also be possible to use your vkb stick and blackbox, at least at some point in the future
Aif I read him correctly
SI have enough sticks, no reason to hold onto the vkb if I won't be using itever again, my vkb is brand new I haven't used it since I bought it 3 or so years ago, I've always used the ms ffb2 and just couldn't get away from using it.
GYeah, I understand. I just have the VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Grip for sale that I bought to go with my VPForce FFB.
Fjust for info how ordering at Virpil works: "Please be aware this is a backorder. Your order will be dispatched when all items are available. "
This usually only takes a week or two.
This usually only takes a week or two.