You mean it's better to order the second one ?
You mean it's better to order the second one ?
W3-pin
H
H@walmis I got to play with your USB stress test program a bit more. I found out it could go for a long long time when the stick (i.e. motors) was not under any load. As soon as I moved the stick around, the USB error started to occur. Interestingly enough, the Wireshark capture shows the ACK from the endpoint was eventually sent but after 1 second instead of the typical 1 ms. The error check shows 'hid_write/WaitForSingleObject: (0x000003E5) Overlapped I/O operation is in progress.'. Apparently, time-out happens after the long wait, hence, the error. What do you think may cause this kind of delay in ACK from the endpoint?
H
WOne quick thing you could try is to isolate the PSU ground from the mains earth connection, other than that I'm baffled. Looked the code, USB driver is pretty simple, maybe errors occur on cable and are not recoverable. I could send you another board with a different MCU to test.
W
HIs the power supply (+19 to 24V) ground tied to USB ground through a 0ohm resistor somewhere on the PCB that I can remove? If not, how do I separate USB ground from power supply ground? Thanks!
HThank you for your offer! Let me play with the current board some more. I actually enjoy learning stuff about the USB interface that I knew nothing about before. If, say, I still struggle in a few days, I'll take up on your offer. I'm willing to pay for the shipping to offset some of your cost.
WYou can completely disconnect the 20V (both positive and negative) from the USB board (the fan will not work then though) - that will break the GND loop.
Or 2. remove the GND finger on the mains plug/or the earth wire from the mains lead that connects to the power supply input/or use a mains cable without grounding.
Or 2. remove the GND finger on the mains plug/or the earth wire from the mains lead that connects to the power supply input/or use a mains cable without grounding.
HMy +19 to 24V supply is a lab power supply, which has red(+), black(-), and green(chassis ground) terminals. My understanding is, since I'm connecting through red and black, I don't think the earth ground is part of the ground connection. Anyway, I did try tying +19 to 24V directly to the motors bypassing the FFB USB control board as you suggested and I still got the same USB issue. Looking closely at my build, I did notice the USB panel-mount connector that I got through Aliexpress does not have the shield tied to ground. I don't think it would matter but I would try to connect it to ground just to be sure.
WAlright, it's not GND loop then, perhaps the USB wires go parallel and close with the power wires?
You could try to add a ferrite to the USB wires. Or maybe try another power source? Man, you have a strange case there
You could try to add a ferrite to the USB wires. Or maybe try another power source? Man, you have a strange case there
HMan, I agree with you that this is a real doozy. I tried AC outlets from different part of my house and from different circuit breakers. I also found a USB cable that had a built-in ferrite core and tried. All of the tried cases so far reproduce the same USB issue (occasional 1 sec ACK from endpoint). I haven't tried tying the shield of the panel-mount USB connector to ground (a somewhat difficult mod) but I'm skeptical that anything will be different. I'm close to the end of my wit unless you can come up with something else for me to try. I was in a process of building a home-made reflow oven but got distracted and didn't finish. I'm seriously considering completing this reflow oven project so that I can put the FFB control board in to reflow for a while just to see if my luck changes... Sigh...
SMaybe the issue is the lab power supply. I know Chinese rebranded ones are very noisy. Maybe you can try a different one like a laptop power brick or one that uses a transformer. Worth a try?
HI actually started out with a laptop power brick and noticed the issue. I thought it would be better by switching to a lab power supply but the problem persisted regardless of form of supply.
SHave you tried a different computer?
Stry it on a laptop if you have one, run the same tests. It could be the usb controller if your on amd motherboard.
Syou can also try turning off all settings related to usb power savings/ standby/ sleep in windows and in bios.
S
HThank you for your response! My motherboard is AMD based Asus Tuf Gaming X570 Pro WiFi. I finally had a chance to do the same test on my Intel based laptop and could not reproduce the issue. I updated BIOS and AMD's chipset driver for Windows 10 to the latest and turned off all USB power/standby/sleep/selective suspend settings as you suggested. I still see the same issue. Unfortunately, my laptop is not powerful enough for gaming so I'm pretty much stuck. Where did you hear about this USB thing with AMD motherboards? Is it something that people complained a lot in the past?
Sits a problem with other devices too
Shp had to send me a special cable for my hp reverb g2 so it doesn't crash all the time specifically for amd motherboard
Sreddit
402 votes and 680 comments so far on Reddit
Sthis is what they did to it so it can work with my motherboard
SI have the asus strix x570i
SSo you can try a usb hub or pci usb hub, apparently that fixes the issue if you find a good one
Sapparently amd tried to fix it through bios updates multiple times and failed
S
Syou can read more about it here
Pwill someone be able to help me out soon to run through the initial set up of my Rhino?
HWow, I had no idea!
I've tried my USB hub to no avail. Maybe I can go get a PCIe USB card next... Thanks again for the enlightenment!
I've tried my USB hub to no avail. Maybe I can go get a PCIe USB card next... Thanks again for the enlightenment!Sis the latest Ryzen chipset driver from AMD installed?
Sis Disable Global C-State in the BIOS enabled? if it is then disable it
Scan you run prime95 on you computer for a while?
Sor convert a video in handbrake
Sand see if your computer crashes
Stry out all the ports on the back of the motherboard, there are cpu ports and chipset ports. the faster ones like usb3.0 and usb c are generally the cpu ports, also the newer the port like if ts usb 3 gen 2 or somethingits more likelyto have better signal integrity then just a usb 3 or a usb 2. for some people this happens only cpu ports or mother board ports only and for others it happens on both
Snext step would be to buy a powered usb hub or powered pcie card
SInateck PCI-e to USB 3.0 (4 Ports) PCI Express Card and 15-Pin Power Connector, Red (KT4001)
Slots of people say this one worked
Sbut if you find another cheaper where you live with sata power like this one then give it a try
Salso try plug in all other usbs in the usb hub and plug in the rhino one alone in the best usb port on the back of your motherboard like usb c or the turquoise ports, those should be the best
Sthis might decrease the noise from the other usbs just enough for it to work
Stry multiple different usb hubs, 3.0, powered , non powered, pcie, etc to try and get the cleanest signal possible
Soh one more is to try out pcie 3 in bios
Shere is another idea
Suse a really short usb cable from the rhino and plug it straight into a powered usb 3.0 hub with good quality thick shielded wire
Sthen the usb hub into the computer
Stry adding a faraday cage or some kind shielding around the rhino logic board so it doesnt get affected by the magnetic currents from all the other components
HWow, that's a lot to digest. I did update AMD's chipset driver to the latest and saw no improvement. I'll try one thing at a time as you suggested. I think it's pretty clear now that it has something to do with signal integrity.
SYeah I think so too. Basically try to get the best signal possible and do the settings changes.