as an additional problem I'm trying to work out, it seems the stick position is wonky with the BF-10

as an additional problem I'm trying to work out, it seems the stick position is wonky with the BF-109s in the game
Even with full trim forward, I'm having to constantly hold forward pressure to keep it flying straight and level
but... that's a minor problem

AndyHill•2/23/23, 3:48 PM

I noticed the same thing once

AndyHill•2/23/23, 3:48 PM

I didn't have that much time so I decided to test another time and couldn't reproduce the issue

AndyHill•2/23/23, 3:48 PM

I had it happen on an fw, though

AndyHill•2/23/23, 3:48 PM

haven't tested 109s for a while

KhangireyOP•2/23/23, 3:49 PM

thankfully, IL-2 recently added a feature that lets you change the "zero" position of a neutral stick

KhangireyOP•2/23/23, 3:50 PM

this was probably done to help with the Fokker dr. 1 which requires massive stick forward

KhangireyOP•2/23/23, 3:50 PM

but idk if changing the zero position will mess with FFB, I'll have to test it

AndyHill•2/23/23, 3:50 PM

dr1 with max force rhino is a tiring experience for both the stick and the pilot

peachmonkey•2/23/23, 4:50 PM

all I can say about IL2 BoX and FFB is that I couldn't enjoy RHINO with it, it felt pretty unnatural and I couldn't put my finger on where the issue lied. Maybe it's just the FFB or maybe it's a combination of their poor FM + the FFB + trying to holistically compare it against DCS's experience. The biggest pet peeve I have with IL2 and really the reason why I stopped playing it altogether (after 5yrs and 2k+ hours) is the ridiculous pitch up/down sensitivity of ANY airframe at slow speeds, i.e. including JU88, Ju52, A20, etc etc. like they weight absolutely nothing, have zero longitudal inertia, and have the elevator control surface areas the size of the main wings. On a non-ffb joystick I could (and did) train myself not to jerk the vertical axis to avoid this fm nonsense, but on the FFB I was looking for the proper feedback to this behavior and there was none, so it broke the immersion even further..

skyPickle•2/23/23, 6:35 PM

IL2 is way better at FFB than DCS-which is buggy for helicopters at least

skyPickle•2/23/23, 6:36 PM

I use curves on IL2 - the little sensitivity thing in the key settings

skyPickle•2/23/23, 6:37 PM

And now that it has per airframe settings it's much more friendly to flying different airframes without rebinding nonsense- always an arduous chore

SskyPickle I use curves on IL2 - the little sensitivity thing in the key settings

peachmonkey•2/23/23, 6:56 PM

it's nothing to do with sensitivity and everything to do with a poor fm.

SskyPickle IL2 is way better at FFB than DCS-which is buggy for helicopters at least

peachmonkey•2/23/23, 6:59 PM

that's a very strange comparison.

SwiftVengeance•2/23/23, 8:39 PM

yeah after trying il2 last night I can agree there is something strange with the way things feel

SwiftVengeance•2/23/23, 8:42 PM

and the ffb wasnt too great. In dcs when your pulling too hard the shaking feels precise and sharp but in il2 I almost couldn't feel it. And I had all the shaking set to 100% while in dcs I have to lower it down because its too strong.

SskyPickle IL2 is way better at FFB than DCS-which is buggy for helicopters at least

SwiftVengeance•2/23/23, 8:43 PM

what bug did encounter in dcs?

RustBelt•2/23/23, 9:05 PM

There’s no chance of getting an 04 for pitch and a smaller motor for roll in a hardware kit is there? Do the two motors need to be matched?

RRustBelt There’s no chance of getting an 04 for pitch and a smaller motor for roll in a h...

smitty•2/23/23, 9:14 PM

there's only 1 entry for amperage to the motors in the configurator per motor pair. i suppose you could get 2 separate driver boards and accomplish the different settings that way. walmis would know for sure. might depend on the game, if its smart enough to send pitch and roll to 2 devices. xpforce can do it for msfs, i have a 2nd board with a big motor for rudder.

RustBelt•2/23/23, 9:19 PM

I suspected it was global not per channel but figured I’d ask. For packaging in a yoke particularly a smaller Roll would be handy.

SSwiftVengeance what bug did encounter in dcs?

skyPickle•2/23/23, 10:45 PM

releasing the trim button does not result in the stick staying where i put it. In the huey it moves back to the center. REgardless of the option i choose in the special settings in dcs

SskyPickle releasing the trim button does not result in the stick staying where i put it. I...

sydost•2/23/23, 11:47 PM

It seems to be a weird problem you got there. I have been trying to reproduce your problem but no luck. Do you happen to have forced effect on for spring effect in VPForce configurator? That option stops the force trim from working. Does the stick become loose if you hold the trimmer button pressed or is the centering spring force active also when the trimmer is held down? Earlier you mentioned that you had trouble with the Apache trimmer also. Have you got that fixed?

sydost•2/23/23, 11:49 PM

Could you send a picture of your VPForce effects and settings tabs? Got to go to sleep now but I’ll check those tomorrow and see if I can help fix the problem.

SskyPickle releasing the trim button does not result in the stick staying where i put it. I...

SwiftVengeance•2/24/23, 12:18 AM

It worked for me. Set the special settings to default.

skyPickle•2/24/23, 12:27 AM

i uploaded my vpconf file in support. only thing s enabled are spring, inertia, damper and friction. no force checkboxes are checked. stick becomes loose when trimmer is pressed. default setting in special tab gives similar results to the 'center' setting.

ddrake1984•2/24/23, 12:35 AM

RHINO arrived just now, but the unboxing will have to wait until Sunday

Ssydost It seems to be a weird problem you got there. I have been trying to reproduce yo...

skyPickle•2/24/23, 1:04 AM

SOLVED. Curves on the axes in DCS messes up the way the Rhino interprets trim. Thing is, I like curves. on my stick and on my women

skyPickle•2/24/23, 1:08 AM

eliminating curves allows the huey cyclic to respond to trim appropriately. I wish there was a way to have curves for those precision moments. Ideally, there would be a button which could rescale axes on the rhino-but I think that's planned for a future release

KKhangirey as an additional problem I'm trying to work out, it seems the stick position is ...

PiNKSH!T•2/24/23, 1:47 AM

Yeah this is a bug that's been around since at least 2017 if not longer. Apparently the 109 trim should be at like 86% for normal flight but as you pointed out you need full trim plus some stick input. The FFB community being so small these days I guess we're not at the top of the list for fixes

SskyPickle eliminating curves allows the huey cyclic to respond to trim appropriately. I wi...

Polack-1•2/24/23, 4:38 AM

That's a pity, luckily I play with zero curves so that will save me some headache for once, looks like

SwiftVengeance•2/24/23, 7:50 AM

oh yeah I noticed that too and I brought this issue to attention a few times. Didn't realize you were talking about this because you said it went back to center. My solution to this is to use full length extension so I get all the precision I need.

Stoned Kakapo•2/24/23, 12:50 PM

Holy shit shipping was fast! Didn't even stop at customs. It'll be here in a couple of hours

SskyPickle SOLVED. Curves on the axes in DCS messes up the way the Rhino interprets trim. T...

peachmonkey•2/24/23, 2:20 PM

yup, having curves on FFB axis in DCS f^$s everything up by moving the spring center forward, it's the same story with ww2 fighters, jets, etc. DCS isn't acknowledging it and until more of us complain they won't do jack shit. I was secretly hoping walmis could introduce an FFB axis curve sensitivity feature, however judging by the amount of work he must do it doesn't look feasible. Someone suggested using vJoy and doing virtual axis curves but it seems too complicated and I just don't trust all that virtual axis stuff...

Ppeachmonkey yup, having curves on FFB axis in DCS f^$s everything up by moving the spring ce...

walmis•2/24/23, 2:27 PM

I'll probably do this in the release after the next one.

skyPickle•2/24/23, 2:53 PM

Interestingly, curves on the apache controls has an almost minimal impact. So it must be unique to every airframe

Stoned Kakapo•2/24/23, 2:53 PM

@walmis top tier packaging!! Thank you so much, and for the included usb cable

skyPickle•2/24/23, 3:02 PM

Yea, walmis reminds me of how the US was in the early 20th century- clever, able individuals who made things like electric light bulbs, automobiles, airplanes, motors, etc. Supporting people like him is only possible through the magic of the internet. But im sure he knows other people like himself who can make similar advances- force feedback rudder pedals, dcs interfaces to real world drones, unifying software, chatGPT addons for realistic comms, etc.

Jon (Bounty_V)•2/24/23, 3:08 PM

At that point we're just doing eagle dynamics job for them

SskyPickle Interestingly, curves on the apache controls has an almost minimal impact. So it...

peachmonkey•2/24/23, 3:08 PM

apache is a brand new module, I feel they may have done something specific for it. As far as ww2 modules the curve on any of them moves the ffb center forward the same way, however there's a difference in trim behavior making it look like they have 'unique' issues..

AndyHill•2/24/23, 3:16 PM

in the end if the job gets done I'm ok with it whoever does it

Ppeachmonkey apache is a brand new module, I feel they may have done something specific for i...

Stoned Kakapo•2/24/23, 3:24 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong (I've yet to set up the rhino, have to wait for work to stop bugging me), but I was under the impression that curves were unneeded on a FFB stick? When I'd use the msffb2, I think I ran into this centering issue with warbirds, I had curves set for my other bases. But after removing, it felt like the curves were unnecessary compared to spring bases? But maybe I'm missing something in regards to the feeling

Wwalmis I'll probably do this in the release after the next one.

peachmonkey•2/24/23, 3:59 PM

you rock, @walmis !

All I can do for you is to continue advertising your awesome product bringing you more business!

SStoned Kakapo Correct me if I'm wrong (I've yet to set up the rhino, have to wait for work to ...

peachmonkey•2/24/23, 4:02 PM

well, there's still a sensitivity issue with the axis themselves, regardless if it's FFB or springed. On Mosquito for example the real-life stick is very long and without curves Mossie is extremely twitchy in pitch axis, with the spring joystick I had to apply a curve of 40 to get it in to a comfort zone, same goes for P47, albeit it needs much less curve. With the german fighters no curves needed, the real-life stick length is more or less comparable to our joysticks.

AndyHill•2/24/23, 4:11 PM

The feel of an FFB stick is nicer than springs for me, but I think the sensitivity is more about the length and throw of the controller