Sits not a worm gear so it works both ways
BMight be a dumb question but does TelemFFB work with other devices like MS FFB2?
WOut of the box - no, but it's possible to port it
NI don’t even fly the Apache (yet)..but I have a feeling this is going to end up on my collective when it’s available. Will require some minor changes (to my collective base) to account for the length of the grip.
https://www.helisimmer.com/news/teaser-virpil-ah-64-apache-collective-photos
https://www.helisimmer.com/news/teaser-virpil-ah-64-apache-collective-photos
HeliSimmer
The company gave us access to 3 teaser pics of the upcoming collective for the Apache.
SI hope its under 300 Eur
TI hope they do a Kiowa grip.
BThis is what I said on the Noobifier hardware channel about the new Virpil grip: "It's slightly infuriating how they seem to've intentionally left the collective base out of focus. That's my main question about it -- are they making a new base with a shorter tube so that the whole thing isn't so long?"
I may stick with my Hawk grip. It's pretty nice, albeit without the backlighting (other than on one button).
Now if they made an AH-64 TEDAC (front seat targeting control) gizmo, that would have my complete attention. EDIT: and then 30 seconds later I came across this https://www.helisimmer.com/news/komodo-simulations-first-images-video-tedac-ah-64-apache
I may stick with my Hawk grip. It's pretty nice, albeit without the backlighting (other than on one button).
Now if they made an AH-64 TEDAC (front seat targeting control) gizmo, that would have my complete attention. EDIT: and then 30 seconds later I came across this https://www.helisimmer.com/news/komodo-simulations-first-images-video-tedac-ah-64-apache
HeliSimmer
The Komodo TEDAC has been on pre-order for some time, but this is the first time we have seen photos of the product.
AKomodo is top of the line prices, bottom of the barrel quality
ADon’t even think about touching that crap. Paid over £500 for a B8 cyclic and base only to find out that the rubbish was lower quality than my old Saitek X52
NYeah..I saw the concerns about the length/weight of the Apache grip relating to their current collective bases. Not a concern for my VPforce FE Collective though 
Fstuff looks like it has been 3d printed with some average materials but costs like injection molded stuff or even more. 
AThat’s because it is
AIt’s not some factory, it’s just a random bloke 3D printing it in his garage
BSo I've had some dealings with Komodo, although I never ended up with any of their products. The dude is a stand-up guy (and last I heard, full-time medevac heli pilot). I know that some of his earlier filament-based 3d printed parts were not what we get from Virpil/etc. but the video and images of the TEDAC lead me to believe that he's either doing resin-based printing now, or using some other technique. I just sent him a query about exactly that.
I would encourage folks to not be so critical of what is (again, the last time I heard) a one-man shop, that is passionate about aviation and flight simming. And -- show me a TEDAC that doesn't cost multiple thousands of dollars... I don't think it exists (I've researched it extensively).
I would encourage folks to not be so critical of what is (again, the last time I heard) a one-man shop, that is passionate about aviation and flight simming. And -- show me a TEDAC that doesn't cost multiple thousands of dollars... I don't think it exists (I've researched it extensively).
Dwas there an infographic on this discord that showed the different pedals and how they moved in operation? I can't seem to find that picture anywhere
JI don't recall seeing such a pic in this server but if it is its really old from last year
AHe’s running a for profits business, not doing favours for friends. If the quality stinks despite being nearly as expensive as a Rhino… that warrants a scolding tbh
JI wonder if Virpil will make apache cyclic too
ABeing a great guy doesn’t compensate for expensive products which don’t live up to even average market standards
JThey've yet to make a grip based on a cyclic AFAIK, not that any of their grips are bad as cyclics
JUnfortunately on my current cockpit I don't have a way to collective so I won't be getting one anytime soon
AI’d wager a cyclic is next on the list for VPC
V:package: 
RHINO #0208 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0208 Has Shipped!JTo echo the quality comment, quality and durability is what most people want out of a product. Especially if it is expensive. Sure, if its cheap, then you get what you pay for and you kind of have to expect that going in, but for something expensive even by higher end flight sim hardware standards? Naturally you want and expect high quality.
BI have a tek creations panel i bought second hand for $300, its not very old. But i pretty much have to use tape to make sure it holds together.
Originally they charge $800 before shipping and tax for what is basically a few buttons and pots, that gets noisy, so needs deadzones and smoothing, and dont match up anywhere close to the markings.
Its quality is overall below my winwing first gen take off and combat panels that they charge a third for the two.
Originally they charge $800 before shipping and tax for what is basically a few buttons and pots, that gets noisy, so needs deadzones and smoothing, and dont match up anywhere close to the markings.
Its quality is overall below my winwing first gen take off and combat panels that they charge a third for the two.
W!status
VHey @wherenolarkflew,
So the last Shipped RHINO is #0208 on 2023-10-03
Average waiting time from preorder to shipped is 205 days, median is 219 days, max is 292 days
206 Rhinos are shipped in total
So the last Shipped RHINO is #0208 on 2023-10-03
Average waiting time from preorder to shipped is 205 days, median is 219 days, max is 292 days
206 Rhinos are shipped in total
B/gush_on I just did a short flight around my environs (KSJC, with the stock photogrammetric scenery) in the payware Shrike MD530 helicopter. I tell ya, we are living in a golden age of flight simulation -- with VR, MSFS's scenery and flight modeling, high performance PCs, high quality flight hardware and especially something like the Rhino, we are lucky folks (apologies to the folks that are still waiting on their Rhinos).
The HW force trim feature of TelemFFB is just golden, at least for helis -- it really feels like what I remember from back when I was flying the real dealz. Thanks to @walmis and crew -- again! I've been doing this hobby for a long time (but I'm not sure if F-15 Strike Eagle on the Commodore 64 counts
) and it's just worlds and worlds ahead of what we had just ten years ago. /gush_off
The HW force trim feature of TelemFFB is just golden, at least for helis -- it really feels like what I remember from back when I was flying the real dealz. Thanks to @walmis and crew -- again! I've been doing this hobby for a long time (but I'm not sure if F-15 Strike Eagle on the Commodore 64 counts
) and it's just worlds and worlds ahead of what we had just ten years ago. /gush_off
Puse dm for that
Koops
SIs there somewhere an tutorial what every setting is doing in the software - so far I understand that we have two software available for the Rhino - vpforce software and the TelemFFB - would love to see an insight for every setting and the FFB it provides
V:package: 
RHINO #0210 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0210 Has Shipped!V:package: RHINO #0211 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0211 Has Shipped!
BGoogle Docs
VPforce RHINO FFB User Manual Version 0.2 (WIP) 2023-10-02 Table of Contents 1. Welcome 1 2. Getting Started 3 2.1. Technical Specifications 4 2.2. Physical Setup 5 2.2.1. The VKB Adapter 6 2.2.2. The WinWing Adapter 6 2.2.3 The RHINO Throw Limiter Adapters 7 2.3. Initial Connection and Up...
BAre you referring to my post?
NStill waiting on that bill haha
NAnyone have an stl for the rhino grip adapter so I can make a grip attachment?
PNope, there was a guy trying to use a bot
ENoob question here...
Is the Rhino or any software the Rhino uses capable of reading out LVars from MSFS?
The reason i am asking is the following. The current H145 (and the soon to be released H160) use LVars to define the control positions. Now when you are flying with the autopilot, it will move the stick around depending on the regime (move the stick to the left for a left bank for example). Is there any possible solution to achieve this with the Rhino? Any help is appreciated!
Is the Rhino or any software the Rhino uses capable of reading out LVars from MSFS?
The reason i am asking is the following. The current H145 (and the soon to be released H160) use LVars to define the control positions. Now when you are flying with the autopilot, it will move the stick around depending on the regime (move the stick to the left for a left bank for example). Is there any possible solution to achieve this with the Rhino? Any help is appreciated!
Nunfortunately it's nowhere near as simple as all that.
TelemFFB, the software that drives FFB for the Rhino with MSFS uses a library called pysimconnect. Pysimconnect, as the name implies, is a python library for subscribing to simconnect data. This is how we retrieve all the telemetry needed to generate the FFB stick forces as well as the other effects. AFAIK it does not support LVARs, and one would need to develop or make use of another interface library to do so.
All of that said, even if one did get a stream of the LVAR data working, there are further challenges that make something like this exceedingly difficult (or very messy) to pull off. This is the same challenge with implementing any sort of trim following movement to the stick in MSFS.
The fundamental problem is that when you move the stick (either with your hand, or by using the motors), that "moves the axis" since it is bound in MSFS. So if you try to purposefully move the centerpoint of the stick in response to trim telemetry data, not only is the sim adjusting the trim, but the stick is moving the elevator (or aileron, or rudder) axis at the same time so you end up with very coarse trim adjustments.
TelemFFB, the software that drives FFB for the Rhino with MSFS uses a library called pysimconnect. Pysimconnect, as the name implies, is a python library for subscribing to simconnect data. This is how we retrieve all the telemetry needed to generate the FFB stick forces as well as the other effects. AFAIK it does not support LVARs, and one would need to develop or make use of another interface library to do so.
All of that said, even if one did get a stream of the LVAR data working, there are further challenges that make something like this exceedingly difficult (or very messy) to pull off. This is the same challenge with implementing any sort of trim following movement to the stick in MSFS.
The fundamental problem is that when you move the stick (either with your hand, or by using the motors), that "moves the axis" since it is bound in MSFS. So if you try to purposefully move the centerpoint of the stick in response to trim telemetry data, not only is the sim adjusting the trim, but the stick is moving the elevator (or aileron, or rudder) axis at the same time so you end up with very coarse trim adjustments.
NThe Brunner software "solves" this by advising you to edit the aircraft config files in the MSFS file structure to render the trim inactive in the aircraft. By doing this, they remove the double-input problem but that is horribly messy.
They also advise that you do not bind the axis' in MSFS. They send the axis position via simconnect. This is what you would need to do in your example of "follow the autopilot". You would need to do that so that you can stop sending the stick position when the autopilot is engaged (so MSFS doesn't know the stick is moving), otherwise the AP will disengage because MSFS thinks the stick is moving.
That is also messy since simconnect data is sent/received at an interval equal to your framerate. That's fine if you are running 100+fps in pancake mode, but becomes a problem of poor control input resolution if you are in VR running at 30FPS and have a drop down to 20.
Sorry for the novel length response.. I've put a lot of thought into how to add trim following and/or autopilot following capabilities into TelemFFB in a clean way and have come up empty.
They also advise that you do not bind the axis' in MSFS. They send the axis position via simconnect. This is what you would need to do in your example of "follow the autopilot". You would need to do that so that you can stop sending the stick position when the autopilot is engaged (so MSFS doesn't know the stick is moving), otherwise the AP will disengage because MSFS thinks the stick is moving.
That is also messy since simconnect data is sent/received at an interval equal to your framerate. That's fine if you are running 100+fps in pancake mode, but becomes a problem of poor control input resolution if you are in VR running at 30FPS and have a drop down to 20.
Sorry for the novel length response.. I've put a lot of thought into how to add trim following and/or autopilot following capabilities into TelemFFB in a clean way and have come up empty.
Pditto here - chch
Pnovel length replies as just why I'm here- helps me understand some of the odd behaviour I see in sim- thanks for the effort
EHey, thank you so much for the very detailed and valueable answer!
While i won't say that it still should be possible there might be some ways to still do it i think. A nice guy over at the HPG discord build his own FFB stick using stepper motors and hall sensors amd using FSUIPC and a own lua script to get it done.
The LVars are in fact retrievable using another python based library.
Maybe i misunderstand you here, but the trims in helicopters work different than in airliners for example. In helicopters the AP actually drives the stick to the physical position needed to attain a specific attitude. This is the exact same position you need to move the stick to when handflying to achieve the same attitude. So i don't see the double input problem here or am i missing something?
Thanks again for taking your time and the detailed explanation!
While i won't say that it still should be possible there might be some ways to still do it i think. A nice guy over at the HPG discord build his own FFB stick using stepper motors and hall sensors amd using FSUIPC and a own lua script to get it done.
The LVars are in fact retrievable using another python based library.
Maybe i misunderstand you here, but the trims in helicopters work different than in airliners for example. In helicopters the AP actually drives the stick to the physical position needed to attain a specific attitude. This is the exact same position you need to move the stick to when handflying to achieve the same attitude. So i don't see the double input problem here or am i missing something?
Thanks again for taking your time and the detailed explanation!
NI fully understand trim in helicopters vs fixed wing aircraft. My comment about trim was more generic in nature as an example of the fundamental issue. Helicopter force trim has further issues in MSFS as it barely even implements the concept (why would it since it doesn't support FFB).
There is a force-trim implementation in TelemFFB for MSFS but it does not interact with the simulator in any way. It is a hardware only implementation and is identical to the hardware trim you can set up in VPforce Configurator (except that it doesnt implement hat trim adjustments, only 'force trim button').
Regarding the autopilot following.. it would entirely depend on how the sim, or the aircraft, handles the joystick inputs while the autopilot is active. My guess is that since it expects a joystick to always be at 0/0 when it is idle (remember, it has no concept of FFB or axis offsets), any deviation from 0/0 would cause an AP disconnect. Perhaps not, but the only way to really know would be to implement the feature and that wold be an awful lot of work just to find out it doesn't work.
There is a force-trim implementation in TelemFFB for MSFS but it does not interact with the simulator in any way. It is a hardware only implementation and is identical to the hardware trim you can set up in VPforce Configurator (except that it doesnt implement hat trim adjustments, only 'force trim button').
Regarding the autopilot following.. it would entirely depend on how the sim, or the aircraft, handles the joystick inputs while the autopilot is active. My guess is that since it expects a joystick to always be at 0/0 when it is idle (remember, it has no concept of FFB or axis offsets), any deviation from 0/0 would cause an AP disconnect. Perhaps not, but the only way to really know would be to implement the feature and that wold be an awful lot of work just to find out it doesn't work.
EThanks again for the clarification.
I didn't want to sound like i doubt that you know how helicopters work. Just wanted to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
The helicopter i am talking about has a 'no springs' option which let you deflect your stick while using (internal) trim release and creates a new center where you release trim release. So that should be helpful.
But i have no doubts that it will still be very complicated to implement the autopilot logic.
I will play around a bit and have a chat with the coder of the helo. Until then i will enjoy the Rhino in it's current state.
So thanks again for your effort and the very helpful information.
I didn't want to sound like i doubt that you know how helicopters work. Just wanted to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
The helicopter i am talking about has a 'no springs' option which let you deflect your stick while using (internal) trim release and creates a new center where you release trim release. So that should be helpful.
But i have no doubts that it will still be very complicated to implement the autopilot logic.
I will play around a bit and have a chat with the coder of the helo. Until then i will enjoy the Rhino in it's current state.
So thanks again for your effort and the very helpful information.
M@VPforceBot
J#
faq
faq
TWhile waiting for my Rhino to be built and arrive I am thinking of going into VR….
I am undecided between the Varjo Aero and the Bigscreen Beyond.
Which one would you recommend?
I am undecided between the Varjo Aero and the Bigscreen Beyond.
Which one would you recommend?
NDepends on if you value comfort or clarity. I am biased as I have the aero (since day 1) and have zero complaints about the comfort. Performance in "my sim" (DCS) is second to none with dynamic foveated rendering support. Its an absolute steal at the new price in my opinion.