yzhanping (the maker of the DIY F16) has confirmed on HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT's discord the possibility t

yzhanping (the maker of the DIY F16) has confirmed on HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT's discord the possibility to order custom grips with the amount of inputs (and also custom shape if we provide 3D data) we want!
He also added that the motherboard of the stick is based on the CD4021 series, which can have up to 118 button/trigger/encoder inputs!

@walmis can you confirm if the Rhino supports the CD4021 series of shift registers, please?
Also what would you think would be the best way to go if we were to order a stick made just for the Rhino in terms of connectors/hardware/software? (I don't know maybe it's not all relevant but I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on what we should do if we can start from scratch.)
Thank you!

MMatchstick Apologies if this is a stupid question, but has anyone had any success using a R...

DofMan1234•1/8/24, 6:41 PM

As others have replied, I'm also hoping that xPlane (11 or 12) will soon be able to drive the Rhino stick, via the Rhino interface software. It's bl**dy amazing with MsFS, so would be even better with XP's handling.

I have a Brunner FF Yoke as well, and that works perfectly with MsFS and xPlane (11 and 12), with it's own intermediate software, so it can be done.

I also have the xpForce software which I've used for many years with a Sidewinder FF stick, but now just jerks it back and forth, and I haven't managed to get a peep out of my Rhino with it either. I tried emailing the developer, but unfortunately have never had any replies. It was quite cheap to register, but still a disappointment now to not get any responses.

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 8:47 PM

@_gunzablazin just a thought, but since the rhino is such a good basic joystick, I wonder if adding a software control for moving the joystick centre would be an easy win over full XP integration?

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 8:49 PM

Would allow the basic trimming in joystick rather than in game

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 8:51 PM

(If that would be a good compromise @match_stick @7hoshino?)

Matchstick•1/8/24, 8:52 PM

I'm mostly interested in FFB for helo flying in XP so something simple like that would be a good start for me

RRoyMi6 Would allow the basic trimming in joystick rather than in game

Number481•1/8/24, 8:56 PM

you can already do that using the hardware force trim functionality in configurator

MMonkee yzhanping (the maker of the DIY F16) has confirmed on HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT's disco...

recoilfx•1/8/24, 8:57 PM

Yes, the generic grip profile works with CD4021s, up to 4 in series I think, so 32 buttons. I am using that right now with my diy stick.

NNumber481 you can already do that using the hardware force trim functionality in configura...

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 8:57 PM

Ohh nice

NNumber481 you can already do that using the hardware force trim functionality in configura...

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:23 PM

Sorry, I don't have a working grip at the moment (still waiting on a replacement adapter that got lost in the mail over Christmas) so I can't test this right at this second... But does "Trim Release" work like the "Pilot Trimmer" in the Heuy in DCS? I.e. I move the joystick to a position, press "Trim Release" and that's my new centre position?

RRoyMi6 Sorry, I don't have a working grip at the moment (still waiting on a replacement...

Number481•1/8/24, 9:25 PM

wrong order, but yes.... push (and hold) trim release button.. spring forces go to 0... release button, spring forces come back centered at new position

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:25 PM

ok nice, and Trim Reset presumably just sets it to stick centre?

RRoyMi6 ok nice, and Trim Reset presumably just sets it to stick centre?

Number481•1/8/24, 9:26 PM

yep

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:28 PM

perfect, cheers - well @match_stick and @7hoshino looks like not only would the Rhino give you a nice joystick with very little (if not zero) deadzone, you'd also get hardware trimming out the box before any additional effects were added

RRoyMi6 ok nice, and Trim Reset presumably just sets it to stick centre?

Bob Bushman•1/8/24, 9:31 PM

Yeah, grant I use the built in dcs huey trim, but I've find myself not needing trim reset anymore as you always know where your stick and input is.
Unlike with spring sticks, 'center' is kind if pointless.

Bob Bushman•1/8/24, 9:34 PM

Reset might be needed with the built in feature as that would unlikely reset between modules etc.
If you use it that is.

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:35 PM

Aye, I'm only talking about Xplane here really. DCS Huey and Apache (the only two helos I've got) have both got good FFB implmentations by my book. In game options for trim seems to work very well with both of them

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:36 PM

I was really just replying to matchstick and hoshino about how they were looking for xplane support for FFB Rhino

Number481•1/8/24, 9:36 PM

"reset" is really only a convenience concept for sprung joysticks.. real helicopters have no such button. (or a hardware force trim implementation that is not based on any telemetry from a sim)

Bob Bushman•1/8/24, 9:41 PM

Yup, quite necessary for spring sticks or youll end having to have something like the controls hud open and finagle the trim back to center so you dont loose track of where you are in terms of input forces.
And part of why I could never get into the apache.

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:42 PM

On a totally different subject - I think there's a couple of people looking for this (and sorry, @Bob Bushman you seem to be saying this isn't possible) but I think I've found a pretty good facsimile for the F16 force sensing stick...

My understanding of the F16 stick is that it does have SOME movement (and it's a shame the software endstops can't be made lower than 10%) but this appears to work bloody well in my mind

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:44 PM

(actually, spring gain isn't 100%, I have it controlled by the hardware pot and it's maybe only quater way up, just so the stick recenters well)

Bob Bushman•1/8/24, 9:44 PM

Contrary to popular belief, no man has died from eating his pride.

If you're right it saves me another 1k

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:45 PM

haha - yeah, try it out - with the endstops at 10% you defintly don't want an extension - but I'm of the understanding that the sidestick in the F16 doesn't IRL either

Bob Bushman•1/8/24, 9:49 PM

Running extension less center mount at the moment, but will definitely give this a whirl

Fierce_Fire•1/8/24, 9:49 PM

Doesnt the f16 feel wierd with ffb for you?

Bob Bushman•1/8/24, 9:52 PM

Havent actually tried it yet

RoyMi6•1/8/24, 9:57 PM

I mean for me... I haven't flown a real F16... so with nothing to compare against

Fierce_Fire•1/8/24, 9:59 PM

It doesnt feel like how the springs in the f18, f15e or apache feel

Number481•1/9/24, 12:26 AM

Big TelemFFB Release News

@Rhino Owner @FFB/Kit Owner @VPforce
For the past 2 months or so (seems longer?), @smitty and I have been working hard in the background to completely revamp TelemFFB.

The effects aspect of TelemFFB have seen a lot of development, but the UI and configurability have always been a flat spot.

A big thanks to @smitty, who took the initiative to start working on a dynamic, graphical settings interface which necessitated a ground-up re-write of the entire configuration model and many, many enhancements and modifications to the overall TelemFFB UI.

You can grab the latest version over in Unknown. If you are already running the 'WiP' version (which most everyone is), you should automatically get the update the next time you start TelemFFB.

I won't bore you with too many gory details, but here are the high points:

Completely UI driven config (no more ini files!)
- Only valid/applicable settings are shown when modifying a sim/aircraft category/aircraft (no more guessing)
- Live effect management for active aircraft right from the TelemFFB window
- Manage any sim / aircraft category / specific aircraft default settings through the settings manager interface
- Simple, wizard-based creation of settings for new aircraft (either 'new' or 'clone from existing')
Easy operation for multiple FFB devices (i.e. joystick plus pedals and/or collective)
- Built in Auto-launch setup for multiple devices (no more need for command line arguments!)
- Dynamically manage unique config for any device from single master window
Automatic management of user settings override for all sims and FFB devices
Automated, built-in, legacy user override file (.ini) conversion

I urge you to review the new section of the manual here, paying particularly close attention to the "what's different" and "first time setup" sections: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL5DLkiTxlaNx_zKHEYSs25PjmGtQ6_WZDk58_SGt8Y/edit#bookmark=id.og67qrvv8gt7

If you are running currently with multiple devices, you will certainly want to review the section covering that setup in the new version: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL5DLkiTxlaNx_zKHEYSs25PjmGtQ6_WZDk58_SGt8Y/edit#heading=h.vq9olbg3m4ll

This is a pretty big boulder we just tossed in the 'pond of stability' of TelemFFB. So as more people get their hands on it, there will certainly be some unforeseen bugs or features/settings that are broken or missing... so, please, if you notice something please let us know!. We have squashed many bugs over the past several weeks of cleanup and polishing, bug you can never get them all!

Enjoy!
Here's some screenshots I leaked the other day:

FFierce_Fire Doesnt the f16 feel wierd with ffb for you?

PiNKSH!T•1/9/24, 7:54 AM

I think there was talk about trying (in the future) to emulate force sensing with the rhino's ffb? I'd love to see where this goes, I still plan on getting the winwing fssb but it'd be a good excuse for a second rhino! lol

PPiNKSH!T I think there was talk about trying (in the future) to emulate force sensing wit...

RoyMi6•1/9/24, 8:56 AM

That’s what these settings get close too 📃general

RRoyMi6 On a totally different subject - I think there's a couple of people looking for ...

原

原子力Hoshino•1/9/24, 9:03 AM

interesting! so with this setting, it would require max stick force you've set for reaching 10% end stop, correct? Also maybe it's also a good idea that having the hardware throw limiter of 10% end stop to assist the software one, just in case you apply too much force and over come the software endstop

原原子力Hoshino interesting! so with this setting, it would require max stick force you've set f...

RoyMi6•1/9/24, 9:43 AM

Yeah, it’s the spring that controls that, and I have the spring force configured be the potentiometer on the base (and it’s only about a quarter turn) so it’s not actually running at full 100%. But it’s a combination of settings worth trying. I think having the software endstops being slightly less would be better, but the lowest they go is 10% currently. I agree that having hardware ends stops would likely be beneficial to reduce load on the motor. For this you’d probably want to turn on Endstops but reduce the actual force power to 0%

VPforceBot•1/9/24, 10:19 AM

RHINO #0336 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•1/9/24, 10:19 AM

RHINO #0335 Has Shipped!

Boggy•1/9/24, 12:15 PM

Wow, this new telemetry thingy is awesome! Everything feels so much better in DCS!

Fudge•1/9/24, 12:20 PM

Has anyone stuck a couple of motors into an original cockpit yet? Current plan was springs but I've always wanted to play with a ffb yoke. I've seen a few desktop style yoke projects which look really neat.

NNumber481 # Big TelemFFB Release News @Rhino Owner @FFB/Kit Owner @VPforce For the past 2...

Snubblaren•1/9/24, 12:42 PM

how do i get the tabs all i se is this?

smitty•1/9/24, 12:43 PM

that's the 'stable' version, you want the 'wip'

SSnubblaren how do i get the tabs all i se is this?

Number481•1/9/24, 12:44 PM

grab the latest version in #VPforce-TelemFFB which is linked in the above post

Number481•1/9/24, 12:45 PM

either the last post from the github bot or from the downloads site in the pinned messages

NNumber481 grab the latest version in #VPforce-TelemFFB which is linked in the above post

Snubblaren•1/9/24, 12:47 PM

Thanks

NNumber481 grab the latest version in #VPforce-TelemFFB which is linked in the above post

Bob Bushman•1/9/24, 12:49 PM

That just says "unknown" meaning I don't have access to the channel

Bob Bushman•1/9/24, 12:51 PM

Seems discord was having a db hiccup

RRoyMi6 On a totally different subject - I think there's a couple of people looking for ...

Bob Bushman•1/9/24, 2:22 PM

Just gave this a whirl and must say it feels quite interesting, a bit nervous perhaps, and I noticed after a flight and tweaking some more settings, if I have my pot or spring settings at around 25% it's fine, but increase it much and pull to max, and then release quickly will trip the motor, mostly my y axis (but this could probably vary) somewhere around 30-40% it would likely trip easily.

BBob Bushman Just gave this a whirl and must say it feels quite interesting, a bit nervous pe...

RoyMi6•1/9/24, 2:28 PM

ah yeah, I noticed that once too. I thought I had set something wrong somewhere. Yeah, I know what you mean. Feels like you have to be gentle with it, but I suppose that's what you get from software endstops. As @7hoshino suggested, these settings with hardware endstops would likely work quite well. As you wouldn't be relying on the motors to provide that functionality they would likely have more capacity to act like a strong spring

Bob Bushman•1/9/24, 2:30 PM

Don't think I need much more than a spring force of 25% either so

, If making endstops I imagine they would need be less than the minimum 10%, but having these would naturally hamper other modules

smitty•1/9/24, 2:31 PM

adjust friction & damping so that it doesnt go crazy when you release quickly.. might not be able to totally remove the oscillation though

ddrake1984•1/9/24, 2:31 PM

something I have been meaning to do, get some endstops made.. does anyone know where the 3d files are for them?

Bob Bushman•1/9/24, 2:32 PM

Definitely feels like a very neat way to fly the viper, and never noticed this during flight, just after and while "messing around"