There’s no going back from FFB once you’ve tried it.
There’s no going back from FFB once you’ve tried it.
Ohow do i purchase the products?
WGotta get on the waiting list
M❓faq
TFacts… BIG FACTS
Finally took a test flight with her and she’s absolutely everything I wanted her to be plus some..
(And this was at 50% gain for testing…)
It’s seriously something special to watch the nose dip and react to the G force effects just like real life..
Feeling more and more pressure as you pull back on the stick or dive forwards and those G’s compress..
It’s the magic of software and set up and of course the Rhino that makes it all happen but that’s why the Rhino is the top dog imho.
The app and the config make the magic and the hardware of the Rhino bring the simulation closer to reality than it’s ever been.
I’ll echo again what you’ve said and add my own.
You cannot go back from FFB.
It’s an experience that burns into your memory and that’s impossible to ignore or to forget.
This was what it was like irl.. feeling the pressure of the stick or the balance of the yolk is a REAL feeling that up until now I didn’t think was possible for sim.
So yeah Thanks again to Walmis and Sub and 481 and everyone who helped bring this project to the masses.
Feels like I’m preaching to the choir here though because you guys already know
Finally took a test flight with her and she’s absolutely everything I wanted her to be plus some..
(And this was at 50% gain for testing…)
It’s seriously something special to watch the nose dip and react to the G force effects just like real life..
Feeling more and more pressure as you pull back on the stick or dive forwards and those G’s compress..
It’s the magic of software and set up and of course the Rhino that makes it all happen but that’s why the Rhino is the top dog imho.
The app and the config make the magic and the hardware of the Rhino bring the simulation closer to reality than it’s ever been.
I’ll echo again what you’ve said and add my own.
You cannot go back from FFB.
It’s an experience that burns into your memory and that’s impossible to ignore or to forget.
This was what it was like irl.. feeling the pressure of the stick or the balance of the yolk is a REAL feeling that up until now I didn’t think was possible for sim.
So yeah Thanks again to Walmis and Sub and 481 and everyone who helped bring this project to the masses.
Feels like I’m preaching to the choir here though because you guys already know
TThat memory I describe is already burned into your minds so yeah… There is no going back from FFB.
LI'm mostly flying helicopters in DCS. When I hit the trim button for the first time and felt how stick unloaded shifting into the new center... I had read a lot about how it works, but feeling it was an eye-opener. To me, FFB is second only to VR, in how something can change sim experience.
DCan you post your settings?
WI don’t know, i think FFB is more critical than VR IMO. My wife tried the FFB stick with the F-4 and she just flew around for 30 minutes with a smirk on her face. Didn’t get that reaction with VR
WThen again, I’ve never used high end VR with great visual clarity
WYeah, I’m going have to check that out soon.
MObjective was to get the rhino working with the f4 (out of the box it was really horrible for me and not really flyable) But managed to get the rhino working with the f4 and its absolutely amazing now(very smooth) - but I had to use a combination of people’s settings from the DCs forums for the base configuration software, other setting for the f4 special settings in game and someone else’s setting for the telem(they had tweaked the base DCs jet profile to get everything working ) now it works very well…
TNice I’m interested in these settings! Want to share or post some screen shots when you get a chance.
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
DI am interested in those settings as well. For me, the pitch authority is way too great, I have calibrated multiple times and yet still have to fly around with full nose down trim. Roll feels really nice. I keep hearing how stable the aircraft is, but it is not for me... my settings must be completely bonkers as the aircraft is extremely touchy, a lot like the A-4 mod.
WCare to share that? I’m interested in finding what most folks consider a ‘good’ profile
CChecking in after 10+ years of looking into building my own FFB joystick; learned the trade of CNC aluminium milling and building CNC machine, C-programming, learned 3d printing etc, all to develop a good, solid FFB joystick. I have had many mechanical design iterations, but always hit a brick wall on the software side. This project/product seems to be rocksolid on the software side and quite impressive on the hardware side.
Always envisaged to design something that would be of interests by other fellow simmers, particularly heli pilots (trim is a very import control in the heli, particularly sims!). However during these 10+ years, I got a daughter, a house to build and a job to show up to. I am quite excited about this project, particularly the software side of things. However...I am also aware the torque could be considered a bit limiting, particularly used in conjuction with an extension bar.
My software skills are next to nothing compared to these projects, but mechanically I have learned a thing or 2 both from my personal projects as well as from my real life job.
My questions would be:
What would be the possibilities to tap into the controllers mounted to the stepper (technically servo's with feedback loop) and take off the raw inputs to motor/controller and send it to an outside controller to i.e.:
I can imagine though taken away the motor of the loop, might be problematic for the damping/springy feel though, but keen to discuss how a DIY can improve torque with VPForce software
Very keen to elevate it to next level!
Always envisaged to design something that would be of interests by other fellow simmers, particularly heli pilots (trim is a very import control in the heli, particularly sims!). However during these 10+ years, I got a daughter, a house to build and a job to show up to. I am quite excited about this project, particularly the software side of things. However...I am also aware the torque could be considered a bit limiting, particularly used in conjuction with an extension bar.
My software skills are next to nothing compared to these projects, but mechanically I have learned a thing or 2 both from my personal projects as well as from my real life job.
My questions would be:
What would be the possibilities to tap into the controllers mounted to the stepper (technically servo's with feedback loop) and take off the raw inputs to motor/controller and send it to an outside controller to i.e.:
- control JMC servo's (huge torque, self contained tunable PID), accepts step/dir / ethercat
- SimpleFOC with outrunners to do away with cogging mechanically and much higher torque (i.e. like the FFBeast)
I can imagine though taken away the motor of the loop, might be problematic for the damping/springy feel though, but keen to discuss how a DIY can improve torque with VPForce software
Very keen to elevate it to next level!
WThe VPforce controllers are tightly integrated with the motor controllers for optimal performance, adding support for 3rd party motor controllers is not planned.
Secondly, many people confuse these with steppers due to NEMA form factor, but in fact these servos are 3 phase brushless.
Speaking of torque, 20+nm is doable with VPforce 86BLF04 servos and proper reduction. Those are chonky motors weighing 2.7kg each, driving up to 4.5-5Nm at the shaft
Secondly, many people confuse these with steppers due to NEMA form factor, but in fact these servos are 3 phase brushless.
Speaking of torque, 20+nm is doable with VPforce 86BLF04 servos and proper reduction. Those are chonky motors weighing 2.7kg each, driving up to 4.5-5Nm at the shaft
CHi Walmis,
First of all wanted to say, you've created something to be proud of. This project has lifted the FFB sim world to next level. I have a bit of experience in aviation and sims and it always has been a huge bug bear that cyclic/stick FFB has been the underdog in sim world. Particularly force trim release (and set) option for helicopters. That was actually the reason to start my journey to produce something myself.
Helicopters are relatively easy though; IRL force trim is artifical (hydraulic control operated helicopters); simple clock spring with a clutch to engage/disengage the spring and a trim motor reposition the stick/pedals/collective. No aerodynamic or g-force feedback in controls
I just skimmed through the DIY channel and read some of your documentation. I can see your motors are tightly embedded with the software/drivers and it would be difficult to separate in current design and was kind of expecting this would be difficult but was hoping otherwise. It currently is a well balanced and integrated system.
Next question :D:
What would be the possibility to cascade 2 motors on 1 channel. I see there is a RS-485 connection between the controller and driver board. Any thoughts the driver could drive 2 motors (2 addresses?), using the feedback of 1 motor, i.e. master/slave setup? Feedback/dampening feel would of course needed to be looked at as it is doubled etc
I realize these are not the kind of questions that can be solved over night, but as stated, very keen to see if somehow it would be possible to relatively easy boost the torque. I am just trying to brainstorm here.
You are right that the chonky boys produce quite a bit of torque, but looking at real life, 20nm is only the start!
Sorry, don't want to come across to slag you off, au contrair, but if I look at real life forces (I have done my testing) helicopters require quite a bit more to move through the force trim with 0.6m extension bar. That's why I am so keen to ask these questions.
First of all wanted to say, you've created something to be proud of. This project has lifted the FFB sim world to next level. I have a bit of experience in aviation and sims and it always has been a huge bug bear that cyclic/stick FFB has been the underdog in sim world. Particularly force trim release (and set) option for helicopters. That was actually the reason to start my journey to produce something myself.
Helicopters are relatively easy though; IRL force trim is artifical (hydraulic control operated helicopters); simple clock spring with a clutch to engage/disengage the spring and a trim motor reposition the stick/pedals/collective. No aerodynamic or g-force feedback in controls
I just skimmed through the DIY channel and read some of your documentation. I can see your motors are tightly embedded with the software/drivers and it would be difficult to separate in current design and was kind of expecting this would be difficult but was hoping otherwise. It currently is a well balanced and integrated system.
Next question :D:
What would be the possibility to cascade 2 motors on 1 channel. I see there is a RS-485 connection between the controller and driver board. Any thoughts the driver could drive 2 motors (2 addresses?), using the feedback of 1 motor, i.e. master/slave setup? Feedback/dampening feel would of course needed to be looked at as it is doubled etc
I realize these are not the kind of questions that can be solved over night, but as stated, very keen to see if somehow it would be possible to relatively easy boost the torque. I am just trying to brainstorm here.
You are right that the chonky boys produce quite a bit of torque, but looking at real life, 20nm is only the start!
Sorry, don't want to come across to slag you off, au contrair, but if I look at real life forces (I have done my testing) helicopters require quite a bit more to move through the force trim with 0.6m extension bar. That's why I am so keen to ask these questions.
BFirst time it hits you in the nuts you will be fine with it not being 60 foot lbs on the grip.
TUnless thats what you’re into…
Kink shaming… from you of all people.
Gosh
Kink shaming… from you of all people.
Gosh
BI do know some people.
Its not a party until someone is chained up and hanging from the ceiling.
But that's for a very different discord.
Its not a party until someone is chained up and hanging from the ceiling.
But that's for a very different discord.
Fmine sling shot forwards when I stuck the skids of the Huey into the ground a bit too much.
immediately decreased the effects after that
immediately decreased the effects after that
FDefault value of decell effect should be lowered
F
LI'm not sure that 3D printed plastic gimbal can handle great forces for a very long. So, be careful what you wish for 
BBeen readjusting the height and setup of mine so I could get a more comfortable position.
This did eventually wind up having it lower and closer so I load up the huey the other day and as I click fly it snaps back and whack me in the D.
I'm buying a left handed mouse so I can keep my right hand on the stick.
This did eventually wind up having it lower and closer so I load up the huey the other day and as I click fly it snaps back and whack me in the D.
I'm buying a left handed mouse so I can keep my right hand on the stick.
BPower supply question: What voltage should i set on my MeanWell LRS-350-24 using the adjustment? Lowest i can set it is 20.6V. Searching the discord i'm reading replies saying a 24V power supply is also fine. How does this affect the recommended Max PSU current setting of 7A? Can i turn it to 24V and get more forces before reaching max psu current?
HCan the bigger 86F04 just be exchanged from the smaller motors (from a software and logic board perspective) or do they need software adjustments?
WThey're fully exchangeable from the software perspective
HCool! They will probably rip apart the 3D printed gimbal I assume.... but I keep it in mind for future DIY projects. TY
WCan anyone speak to the longevity of the motors? Seems like the fans are kicking on after a few minutes of intense flying, is that to be expected? Looks like the y-motor fan is kicking on as it was over 45 C. Obviously the higher the gain settings, the hotter the motors. But should we be aiming to keep the fans off? Is there a temperature we should target to keep the motors from breaking down?
Afrom what I can tell there is a temp that is dangerous, but it's very high and the motors reducing max power makes it very hard to reach
Afans starting up isn't dangerous
WOkay good deal, I don’t plan on doing constant dogfights with all the effects blaring
WBut, I have noticed the fans kicking on during testing. Wasn’t sure if that was to be avoided, very good to know the power draw is reduced to keep the temps in order.
AI did a test with the instant action dogfight in DCS trying to see what happens if you really push the rhin
Ao
Ait got very boring at one point when it became clear that at the power level it was running the temps just wouldn't go up anymore
Rdoes the winwing F-16EX grip and all inputs work with the VPforce Rhino base?
H@walmis sorry, yet another question: are the motors from your kit, even though they are marked pitch and roll, interchangeable?
Fafaik, as long as you have 2 it wont be a problem to use the pitch motor for roll axis
Fhowever, you cant use 2 pitch motors or 2 roll motors
Fone of those combos might work, the other certainly wont, cant remember which
HCan you tell why that is?
FI believe the rhino needs a specific motor
Feither pitch or roll, forgot which
Fi've heard some people that had only one for ffb pedals needing to flash different firmware onto the motor cause the rhino didnt like the one it had
HI see…still not sure, if I understand why though. Maybe @walmis can add to this. Thank you meanwhile!
Aas for winwing stuff; I don't have personal experience, but I think the 16ex should work except for the vibration motor
Anote that there is an adapter you need to get for winwing
Fmy understanding is the program looks for a specific ID on the motor thats connected to it
