WOne potential issue with this approach is that it creates a pseudo-linear force curve, instead of the snap action, somewhat dampening the tactile feel. However, the last time I tried it was with low actuation force switches, so this effect may not be as big with 500gf switches.
MThis is what I was thinking as well. The tactile click on the 500gf is fairly prominent but too much additional force and it will be lost in the mix. Would require some r&d to find the right balance. I did a quote req for 3mm square 30mm standoffs.. if it's reasonable I'll have a go and report back
MCool thanks, picked up that lot of 31 so if you want some or know of someone else is in the same boat as me I'd be happy to share the extras, they're small enough to ship in a normal letter envelope so shipping is no problem
WYouTubeValmantas PalikΕ‘a
Contacts:
VPforce Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/Y7YmFGHbee
DCS Forums: https://forum.dcs.world/profile/1984-walmis/
Email: vp@vpforcecontrols.com
Firmware updates/software: https://vpforcecontrols.com/usb/rhino/
VPforce Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/Y7YmFGHbee
DCS Forums: https://forum.dcs.world/profile/1984-walmis/
Email: vp@vpforcecontrols.com
Firmware updates/software: https://vpforcecontrols.com/usb/rhino/
SSweet, hurry up already! i only have so much saliva i can spare before dehydration kicks in 
ε"the erection knobs"
Ffirst rhino let loose... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/968791124103790612/974647068238958592/IMG_20220513_141855.jpg
WInternal structure of 86BLF motor. Nice chunky copper windings, lots of mass for heat absorption/dissipation - perfect for FFB 
SGreetings all: 
WGreetings!
SI'm interested in creating a Huey simpit and have been seeking an acceptable FFB stick to use as a cyclic for years.
SThe main thing I'm after is an acceptable "Force Trim" feature.
SIdeally I like to source a B8 grip but in it's absence I assume Virpil's "WarBRD" will be acceptable: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-grip.html
β
Perfect Match for the VPC WarBRD Base
β Programmable LED Lighting
β Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock
β Β Compatible with all VPC Bases
β 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)
β Programmable LED Lighting
β Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock
β Β Compatible with all VPC Bases
β 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)
SWill all I need be your Rhino FFB base and this WarBRD grip, or are there other components that are also necessary?
WIf you get the Rhino base then only the grip is necessary. There's also motor kits that you can use to implement your own mechanics.
SCool, I'll order the Rhino base then.
SDoes it need AC power at all?
WI can include a power supply, unless you have your own 19-24V 150-200W
SI don't have one, so if you could supply one that would be great.
SI live in Australia but will be able to get my own cable if you find the AU socket hard to source.
SI assume the power supply uses a standard "kettle" or "figure 8" cord, yeah?
SI see you don't recommend using an extension. Is there any reason for that?
SAnd if there's no problem with using an extension are there any simple screw in options available?
SActually I see Virpil have a few options on their site themselves.
WThe base can accept a 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector or an XT60. I'm thinking on moving to XT60 on later rhinos. If you can get a power supply locally then it would be much simpler. Since I can only get an EU plug here atm. I do not recommend an extension simply because it will attenuate the FFB forces. I intended the rhino to be used lifted above the ground, since that gives good force/weight balance for the whole unit :) The whole package is 4.8 kg. The torque is about 5 Nm, so you can roughly calculate the force in kg for a given extension arm. Current pivot to grip thread distance is ~15cm.
SOkay, makes sense.
SI see there are several 3D prints available on Thingyverse so I could always experiment with a few options.
SOkay, looks like I've found a suitable power supply: https://www.mantisfpv.com.au/toolkitrc-adp-180mb-180w-2-34a-power-supply-adapter-with-xt60-output/
MantisFPV
Compatible with most chargers on the market the ToolKitRC ADP-180MB features 180W of power output, with an XT60 connector ready to plug in to the M8, M8s or M6D charger series.
SBTW, which serial number are you up to?
Any chance I could hold out till you make "item 42":
Any chance I could hold out till you make "item 42":
WYeah, that psu looks spot on :)
WI currently only have 20 plates for s/n :D
F@s.bartfast even if you have to use an extension for your project, the Rhino has plenty of power, force trim will work just fine. by the way, i'm using a 24V 10A laptop power supply...
SThat's good.
SAs I say, the main feature I'm hoping for is "force trim" in helis, so hopefully even a relatively light force would be enough for that.
Fit's working like a charm in the Huey. with the configurator software you can tune the power, set it and forget it, saved and stored in the firmware. the stick can be very stiff if trimmed, as much as you like. holding down the trim button releases the forces and the stick becomes "light" for maneuvering.
FDCS's FFB implementation is a hidden gem since the release of Blackshark over a decade ago. standard stick users don't have any idea what they are missing.
Fhave spent almost 3 days now with the Rhino, going through all DCS modules and really appreciate how much finesse and smart design decisions @walmis put into it. it's an excellent joystick base, simply awesome.
OThat's completely true.... Once you realize ffb... You never go back. You can't. It just isn't the same.
VDoes 5Nm refer to the motor output or after the reduction?
WYes, after reduction
VGreat, thanks
WAlmost finished implementing button remapping support
OPretty sure this goes without saying, I am really excited for what's to come as this gets better and better. And more people get involved in experiencing ffb. Absolutely cool.
BMy question is for the Hornet. Is the FBW artificial feel modeled for ffb? Like stick force per G, stick force per AOA, ect.
WThe ED implementation is pretty basic iirc, I'll need to do some more testing. It will be possible to add such effects via DCS telemetry, though.
WIf you guys have any documentation in that regard, G/AoA vs force curves etc, throw it my way, will be useful
Fvery roughly compiled... as standard FFB effects, directly from DCS you'll get:
Warbirds:
- flight surface pressure depending on speed (stick is limb on ground, pressure builds up during start...)
- stall effect (stick rattling)
Cold War Era:
- stick center offset (F-5E, A10C, F-14 ...)
- stick offset through trimming
- autopilot features take full control over the stick (Mig21 ...)
Helicopters:
- full force trim (stick offsets and hold in position)
- trim button released means forces are applied
- trim button depressed means forces are off (for maneuvering)
- important, forget about the Gazelle, this module is a fail
modern Jets:
- standard stick functionality (spring effect)
some modules also feature additional effects like rolling on ground bounce, airframe shaking etc. (F-14's additional FFB effects are awesome!)
all this can be enriched with telemetry output interpretation feedback into the base, like Walmis mentioned above. basically what simshaker for aviators does for jetseat pads and bass shakers...
Warbirds:
- flight surface pressure depending on speed (stick is limb on ground, pressure builds up during start...)
- stall effect (stick rattling)
Cold War Era:
- stick center offset (F-5E, A10C, F-14 ...)
- stick offset through trimming
- autopilot features take full control over the stick (Mig21 ...)
Helicopters:
- full force trim (stick offsets and hold in position)
- trim button released means forces are applied
- trim button depressed means forces are off (for maneuvering)
- important, forget about the Gazelle, this module is a fail
modern Jets:
- standard stick functionality (spring effect)
some modules also feature additional effects like rolling on ground bounce, airframe shaking etc. (F-14's additional FFB effects are awesome!)
all this can be enriched with telemetry output interpretation feedback into the base, like Walmis mentioned above. basically what simshaker for aviators does for jetseat pads and bass shakers...
WThanks for a very nice summary!
OWould it be worth having a save function for separate aircraft such as helicopters, warbirds, modern jets, to have each individual settings for how much those force are felt. And all three can be saved to the board after you've test flown and adjusted those settings to your liking in each of those birds? Does that make sense?
OI should've said category of aircraft.