Thanks. A few more questions if you don't mind. I normally play with a VKB grip on a 200mm extension

Thanks. A few more questions if you don't mind. I normally play with a VKB grip on a 200mm extension. Moving down to a shorter extension + FFB, will I notice a degradation in resolution/clarity/feeling?

KKhangirey Thanks. A few more questions if you don't mind. I normally play with a VKB grip ...

walmis•6/25/22, 8:37 AM

No, It has a very good resolution/sensitivity even without an extension. The pivot to grip length is 168mm and total throw is 44 deg.

Wwalmis No, It has a very good resolution/sensitivity even without an extension. The piv...

KhangireyOP•6/25/22, 8:38 AM

Thanks. So what I'm understanding is that with the FFB, it makes up for that lowering in length, correct?

walmis•6/25/22, 8:41 AM

Not sure if I understood, but in general - longer extension, lower max force felt in the stick, also - longer extension- longer throw. The precision is very good in any configuration

FFrenchy Could you pin that link @walmis ?

walmis•6/25/22, 8:43 AM

It was pinned already

TTripRodriguez FFB pedals might also be nice in warbirds and such, but force trim/mag brake in ...

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:04 PM

I build some rudder pedals wit simple parts, targeting planes, but the should do for you as well. What is still missing is the electronic part that can load the motor according to the force acting on the rudder in dependence of the airspeed.

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:06 PM

Another view...

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:10 PM

The mechanism has no springs and very low friction. So any force has to come from the motor.

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:13 PM

Is the FFB kit capable of that?

Wwalmis Not sure if I understood, but in general - longer extension, lower max force fel...

Vulcan•6/26/22, 12:21 PM

What would need to change to make it more extension friendly? In general when you have such a large base and want to center mount a stick for a seat with a center cutout, the base needs to be mounted below the seat with the extension passing through the cutout. This is why I haven't bought the brunner, because they say it doesn't work well extended and the only thing that does is the $10,000 brunner.

walmis•6/26/22, 12:31 PM

Not sure if it's a problem though. You can calculate the force, for example with stock Rhino at 9Nm you get: 9/0.168m/10 = ~5.3kg max force, if you extend it to 30cm you get: 9/0.3/10 = 3kg

Vulkan•6/26/22, 12:53 PM

For refernce a VKB base with max springs is like 5nm I belive

Vulkan•6/26/22, 12:53 PM

so your getting greater resistance then most non FFB sticks

Cccs_goebel Is the FFB kit capable of that?

walmis•6/26/22, 1:12 PM

The hardware is capable, but the software support is lacking for rudder pedals.

Cccs_goebel Is the FFB kit capable of that?

Propeler3D•6/26/22, 7:18 PM

I have firmware compatible with ODrive board (for pedals single axis ODrive will be enough) that supports FBB based on DCS telemetry. It genareates spring from speed (you can setup curve for it) as well as centering force from thrust (emulates air flow around rudder for propeller drive airplanes). In addition it generates vibration depending on AOA and G. So if you have three phase motor you can try it.

PPropeler3D I have firmware compatible with ODrive board (for pedals single axis ODrive will...

JayPi•6/27/22, 4:08 AM

Is that your bldc-ffb-wheel firmware? A hoverboard motor could be a nice drive for pedals.

JJayPi Is that your bldc-ffb-wheel firmware? A hoverboard motor could be a nice drive f...

Propeler3D•6/27/22, 6:39 AM

It is further development of it for joystick purposes(two axis + DCS telemetry).

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:28 PM

I´m targeting the Condor 2 Soaring Simulator. In its Input Section it shows FFB for Stick and Rudder

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:28 PM

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:29 PM

I assume that pedals mean rudder ...

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:32 PM

I agree that the easiest way is to scale a spring curve with the plane velocity. Zero velocity will mean spring rate zero or very low, higher slope if velocity increases.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:33 PM

Would it make sense to contact the Condor developer team?

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:33 PM

Btw. FFB wit side winder 2 is really good

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:36 PM

Just a little low forcese

walmis•6/28/22, 6:36 PM

I wonder if Condor/DirectInput supports three axis FFB devices. Or one two axis device and a second one axis device for the rudders. It could be possible to connect three motors to the VPforce FFB system, just hadn't had the chance to test this yet.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:40 PM

They adress the MS Sidwinder 2 correctly, no additional drivers needed

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:40 PM

Im using it with a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog in parallel, no issues or conflicts.

walmis•6/28/22, 6:41 PM

Yeah, VPforce will also work the same as msffb2, just with more force. What is curious for me is the ffb rudder pedals support :)

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:42 PM

They should hand over the needed data somewhere.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:43 PM

I will ask them if they can give us a hint.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:44 PM

Rudder will challenge the motor as you have a lot of force in your legs, especially when things do not run well

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:44 PM

So this has to be strong and needs to handle overload conditions

walmis•6/28/22, 6:46 PM

The 86BLF motor should do the job fine for rudders

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:47 PM

I had the idea to have an output connector on the FFB joystick that delivers the airspeed to the rudder pedals.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:48 PM

That would be enough to have a scaleable feedback force at the rudder.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:50 PM

Can you pick this information from the game interface?

walmis•6/28/22, 6:51 PM

Yeah, I have this in my future roadmap

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:51 PM

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:52 PM

In the meantime I will contact the Condor Team.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:53 PM

Can I drive a FFB Kit parallel to the joystick?

walmis•6/28/22, 6:54 PM

How do you mean?

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 7:06 PM

I use your FFB/Kit to power up the rudder and use a Joystick that uses the same kit for height and aileron

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 7:07 PM

so two have to work simultaneously / in parallel

walmis•6/28/22, 7:08 PM

Yeah, that's possible, but I will need to make some software improvements for this usage scenario

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 7:09 PM

Yes, some kind of syncronisation or coupling, master and slave

walmis•6/28/22, 7:10 PM

That too, as in syncing two joysticks bidirectionally

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 7:10 PM

One step at a time

walmis•6/28/22, 7:11 PM

Yup. But good to have a clear roadmap :)

ccs_goebel•6/29/22, 10:23 AM

In the CONDOR 2 forum I found this http://www.simprojects.nl/rudder_pedals_with_force_feedback.htm
It uses airspeed and other information to generate rudder forces

ccs_goebel•6/29/22, 10:25 AM

https://www.condorsoaring.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19687

ccs_goebel•6/29/22, 10:25 AM

Thanks. A few more questions if you don't mind. I normally play with a VKB grip on a 200mm extension

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