Great idea, I switched to a track ball mouse by the joystick after chasing too many mice onto the fl

Great idea, I switched to a track ball mouse by the joystick after chasing too many mice onto the floor in VR. Tried a left handed one, didn't work with my right hand brain.

PPolack-1 Wait, brunner has ffb rudder? How many thousands of dollars does it run for?

Will3D•3/22/23, 6:31 PM

Several unfortunately. But I do love being able to swap between helis, jets and GA. They are also very strong, so creating artificial endstops is quite convincing.

Polack-1•3/22/23, 6:32 PM

do you get rudder stiffening in warbirds? Autopilot pedal movement in Mi24 (as an example):?

PPolack-1 But damn, they look ugly as heck.

Will3D•3/22/23, 6:33 PM

LOL, I take offence at that!

Maybe it's the angle, but they really aren't that bad. I would rather they were silver though, like their yoke.

WWill3D LOL, I take offence at that! 😂 Maybe it's the angle, but they really aren't tha...

Polack-1•3/22/23, 6:36 PM

so you're saying you enjoy them

amadeus•3/22/23, 7:02 PM

firmware update day! hype!

WWill3D LOL, I take offence at that! 😂 Maybe it's the angle, but they really aren't tha...

FlatSpin•3/22/23, 7:12 PM

https://tenor.com/view/cat-im-on-the-fence-balancing-gif-9814297

Tenor

Im on the fence

SStoned Kakapo Meant to say it's perfectly fine* I don't have a pic right now, but here's a vid...

Dr. No•3/22/23, 8:14 PM

Could I see side view pictures of a video of your chair and how you have it setup to the desk?
Looks like your setup is much closer to the way my is setup currently where you have the stick vice gripped to the desk.
I have mine currently mounted like their stock photo here from Foxx Mount
Note: quite honestly from your video, it seems if I really want to I can just put something to cover it if I really want, shouldn't be tough.

PPolack-1 so you're saying you enjoy them 🙂

Will3D•3/22/23, 8:37 PM

For the money, I have to!

WWill3D For the money, I have to!

Polack-1•3/22/23, 8:39 PM

haha, yeah, there's like two thousand reasons saying it's good, lol

mechsicko•3/22/23, 8:50 PM

@walmis is the grip interface and your board able to process rotary encoder pulses as some of the allotted buttons? Would be pretty sweet to be able to natively use the Alps 'funky switch' or other encoders on grips

PPolack-1 So, in essence, the amount and specific type of effects depends on airplane and ...

RustBelt•3/22/23, 11:59 PM

Other than the F-16 with it’s load sensor fingertip side stick, all FBW has a control load feedback system. Heck hydraulically de-coupled systems like the F-14 even have them. Feel systems are vital to aircraft control. So stuff like the F/A-18 should have pitch load feedback. Heck they had to put the stick mount for the F-16 on rubber so it would have some give to it, because pilots found it way too weird that the stick had no movement at all.

Magpie•3/23/23, 12:19 AM

So does the f18 have pitch load feedback? And should the stick move with the trim? Cos it doesn't in dcs

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:23 AM

You’d have to check the NATOPS for what it should have. I’m a Tomcat only dork. Wagnermobile ain’t my thing.

Magpie•3/23/23, 12:36 AM

Tell me more about tomcat stick feel

Magpie•3/23/23, 12:36 AM

How's the decoupling work

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:47 AM

Just checked hornet just lists “spring load cartridges” and pitch center change in mechanical reversion. So They seem to just have progressive springs, not even a damper

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:48 AM

Tomcat uses push rod linkage that runs from the stick to hydraulic control valves at the actuator.

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:51 AM

Feel is managed by a spring system a trim adjustment linkage, a feel system that varies loads on the push rod linkage, an eddy current damper to resist excessive sudden movement of the stick, and a bob weight that pulls the stick nose down the more g load you put on the plane.

Magpie•3/23/23, 12:53 AM

Ah ok. Sometimes when I'm dogfighting I reach for a negative g roll. Sometimes when I push for negative g it feels like there's almost no force opposing the stick. Would that be the feel system?

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:55 AM

Yes. Unloading the tomcat takes most of the loads off the control linkage it’s actually the recommended way to make quick actions. No energy wasted on lift so all of it can go to pitch roll and yaw changes

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:56 AM

You still have the eddy current damper to prevent you from violently slamming the control valves and actuators around too hard.

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:58 AM

But Bob weight is out of the picture on its negative G stops, and load system for pitch isn’t doing much full stick deflection forward.

RustBelt•3/23/23, 12:58 AM

It’s for fingertip precision flying not big movemrnts

RustBelt•3/23/23, 1:00 AM

So you’re just fighting spring tension and the blood trying to all escape out your head

RustBelt•3/23/23, 1:01 AM

It’s ergonomically a lot harder to push over than pull back.

Magpie•3/23/23, 1:16 AM

Ah that explains it well, thanks
Yeah I saw him pushing the stick far forward and to the left in the speed and angels doco so the next time I was in the tomcat I tried that. It took a while to work out when it was useful but it's fun to do

Magpie•3/23/23, 1:18 AM

Feels so good with the ffb stick

MMagpie Ah ok. Sometimes when I'm dogfighting I reach for a negative g roll. Sometimes w...

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:14 AM

Yes

RRustBelt You still have the eddy current damper to prevent you from violently slamming th...

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:15 AM

This is why I do the inertia setting, but its based on length of travel instead of a constant rate

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:16 AM

Maybe I need to fiddle with settings more for that realistic feel, but you can yank the stick

Magpie•3/23/23, 2:29 AM

Wait drake's been learning the tomcat without me?

Magpie•3/23/23, 2:30 AM

Ok new question
Say the sabre has no real feel whatsoever. Its that because it has decoupled hydraulics?

Magpie•3/23/23, 2:30 AM

What came first? Coupled or decoupled? Does coupled give any feel?

TC-Durham•3/23/23, 2:32 AM

As much as I remember the Sabre had hydraulic assistance to its controls, which was one of the main points of John Boyd's OODA loop theory, but I still think there was a direct connect between the stick and the affected control surface.

Magpie•3/23/23, 2:34 AM

Ok, I just don't feel anything when flying the sabre really

Magpie•3/23/23, 2:34 AM

But the mig15 has heaps of character

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:36 AM

@hart28

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:36 AM

Help magpie with sabre

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:39 AM

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:39 AM

Found this on wiki

EEmilia_TanThailand Eh...Fly by wire system is have a effect from FFB base or not?

PiNKSH!T•3/23/23, 2:40 AM

I also like to think of the FFB base not just for giving the exact feelings the aircraft would give through the stick, but also to add some effects that we might otherwise feel through the seat or the body of the aircraft our our own bodies since we're not able to feel all these things without some major hardware in many cases, maybe as things like a "jetSeat" & butt kickers are added some less realistic effects could be removed from the stick. Things like flying a FBW F18 & feeling through the stick each wheel leave/hit the ground is really handy even though we likely wouldn't feel this the same way through a 'real FBW' stick. Anyway just my take.

PPiNKSH!T I also like to think of the FFB base not just for giving the exact feelings the ...

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:41 AM

This is why I want buttkicker& jetseat

MMagpie Ok, I just don't feel anything when flying the sabre really

PiNKSH!T•3/23/23, 2:41 AM

Is this with or without the Telem app? Sorry if I've missed this answer already.

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:42 AM

Good point, last I remember magpie was scared to use the telem app

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:43 AM

Or was he expecting the effects to be present by default without the app

Dddrake1984 Or was he expecting the effects to be present by default without the app

PiNKSH!T•3/23/23, 2:46 AM

Yeah that's my main question really, I haven't tested the Sabre with the Rhino yet. It's all up to the individual module makers whether or not there's any FFB effects & if any what they are.

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:46 AM

I was flying huey last night, found that the telem app was needed

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:47 AM

Not for “extra” effects, but just the ground resonance

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:49 AM

Is there a list someone has done that explains all the aircraft with their default ffb effects and the additional ones? I think someone should do this

ddrake1984•3/23/23, 2:49 AM

I think @magpiee should do it

Great idea, I switched to a track ball mouse by the joystick after chasing too many mice onto the fl

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