Does anyone know of another name for a "cable drive"? I'm doing a knockoff of the Rhino and have bee

Does anyone know of another name for a "cable drive"? I'm doing a knockoff of the Rhino and have been modeling up a drive using steel wire or kevlar thread. It's a technique I learned from an old 3d printer I used to own: http://bootsindustries.com/cable-drive-system-rostock-3d-printer-bi/

Boots IndustriesJean Le Bouthillier

Cable Drive System - Rostock 3D Printer BI

kingjamezOP•5/5/23, 3:14 AM

However, searching online I see very little talk about cable drives... I'm thinking there must be another name for it that I'm missing. ~to me~ it seems very well suited to a FFB stick and I don't have to wait for shipping from China for a belt.

kingjamezOP•5/5/23, 3:14 AM

i think I can get fairly high gear ratios because the motor end pulley can be very close to the shaft size.

kingjamezOP•5/5/23, 3:24 AM

I'm building two cable drive gear sets right now. One with steel wire one with kevlar wire, and already have the HTD gears done.... just waiting on the belts to arrive. I plan to test them all, but am just looking for any advice from others who have used this method.

Will3D•5/5/23, 7:10 AM

Using the large 86blf04 motors I find they don’t have much torque around centre. I don’t have play in my system as the smallest movement registers in the VPForce software. I’ve tried increasing the spring curve around centre and it helps a little. Is there any way to improve this further? Or is it inherent in these motors ?

walmis•5/5/23, 8:07 AM

You should be able to tune this with the spring curve tool

Kkingjamez I'm building two cable drive gear sets right now. One with steel wire one with k...

ju_caesar•5/5/23, 9:48 AM

The reason why you might not find much information on that is that the smaller the radius, the higher the force in the cable, which is theoretically good, as you would need only a relatively small pulley on the gimbal for the same final torque.
...but also, the higher the force in the cable, the higher the force the bearings need to hold. If you increase this force too high, the bearings might fail fairly quickly.
And I am not too keen on how easy it is to replace the bearings inside the motor.
The pre-tension you need in a cable drive is also higher than in a toothed pulley drive.

SskyPickle https://www.fsmissioneditor.com/

MattGoodman•5/5/23, 12:07 PM

I just found that issue too with XpForce. Where the hell do we get it from?

(whilst we wait for the better solution from Walmis for MSFS that is)

I see on another forum that the author says it's a false positive. Did you find it was ok?

Jju_caesar The reason why you might not find much information on that is that the smaller t...

smitty•5/5/23, 12:51 PM

Tension on the cable is much less than what a belt would need. it's just enough to keep it in the rollers. Also, the side loading on the motor shaft is almost nothing- since the cable pulls are 180 degrees apart. A belt has to be pulled tight in one direction to keep the teeth from skipping. Also if you're looking for a better name than 'cable drives', look for 'flight control cables'

FinnSwede•5/5/23, 1:00 PM

Not technically related to the RHINO, but I saw you built your own VKB adapter. Does anyone know if the plastic piece with the contact pads for the stick had to be custom built or is it an off the shelf component from somewhere?

FinnSwede•5/5/23, 1:01 PM

For illustration, and you can probably see why I'm looking for leads on a new one.

Troll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴•5/5/23, 2:48 PM

Does anybody know of a shop that sell HTD5 pulleys and ships with DHL?
I got my pulleys today, but the chinese Ebay store managed to send one wrong pulley and one was missing. The two motor pulleys and the belt was correct though…

Ssmitty Tension on the cable is much less than what a belt would need. it's just enough...

ju_caesar•5/5/23, 2:52 PM

The problem of the motor bearing load does however exist when one is trying to use a cable instead of a pulley in a normal pulley drive configuration like we see on the Rhino, which is what the OP described as far as I can tell.
I admit that indeed the pretension might be a non-issue. And as long as you just want to use the cable as a belt replacement and not to make the drive put out 3 times the torque, you should probably be good regardless.

TTroll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴Does anybody know of a shop that sell HTD5 pulleys and ships with DHL? I got my ...

TheAmazinGreat•5/5/23, 2:52 PM

I’m 3D printing pulleys for mine. You could look at that route.

TTheAmazinGreat I’m 3D printing pulleys for mine. You could look at that route.

Troll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴•5/5/23, 2:54 PM

Yes, I may. But I just wanted to see if anyone knew of a good online shop.

TTroll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴Yes, I may. But I just wanted to see if anyone knew of a good online shop.

TheAmazinGreat•5/5/23, 2:54 PM

I’ll be in the same need when it comes time for belts, can’t 3D print those.

Troll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴•5/5/23, 3:08 PM

What software do you use to design your pulleys with? @theamazingreat

TTroll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴What software do you use to design your pulleys with? @theamazingreat

TheAmazinGreat•5/5/23, 3:18 PM

I haven’t designed any yet, just starting with the existing 70t in the FFB base files floating around here/discord. I did make some changes in fusion 360 to the hub to fit my use but still leaving it at 70t diameter.

TheAmazinGreat•5/5/23, 3:19 PM

I also modified the hub of the 14t to press fit onto the profile of the 86 series motor shaft to avoid using grub screws.

Kkingjamez Does anyone know of another name for a "cable drive"? I'm doing a knockoff of th...

mechsicko•5/5/23, 3:20 PM

I always called it 'shaft winding' but that's probably not the real term either

TheAmazinGreat•5/5/23, 3:20 PM

Next step is working out belts and tensioning methods. Will either be a idler pulley or possibly a clamping system built into the 70t pulley.

Jju_caesar The problem of the motor bearing load does however exist when one is trying to u...

smitty•5/5/23, 3:33 PM

Yep and if you do multiple wraps of the cable around the motor pulley (enough to unwind its travel) and the cable is secured to it, it will be a lot less

Ssmitty Yep and if you do multiple wraps of the cable around the motor pulley (enough to...

ju_caesar•5/5/23, 4:09 PM

You are only referring to the second part about the pre tension, correct?

Jju_caesar You are only referring to the second part about the pre tension, correct?

mechsicko•5/5/23, 4:48 PM

The shaft winding technique req a cross-hole in the drive shaft, and 3-4 full wrapps of cable either side of the hole before going to the final pully. The advantage of this type of system is it allows extremely small drive 'gear', allowing high ratios in compact form factor. Also eliminates the need for matching belts/pulleys. You just need to figure out a way to tension the cable in situ, which there are several ways to accomplish.

Kevlar rope is ideal for this because it has almost zero stretch where steel cable is rellatively springy. Kevlar stretch like 1-2% @ 50% break strength, steel is like 20% iirc.

Here's an example of shaft winding, using steel cable in this case.

smitty•5/5/23, 5:05 PM

on my pedals i probably used a thicker steel cable than necessary (1.5mm bike brake cable) but it works well. at rest there is no motor shaft side load, even in a belt replacement setup there is no load at rest. the only tensioning needed would be just enough to keep the wire in the pulley grove, any more is unnecessary. these cables have ~150kg break strength so stretch isnt an issue. even the 1.2mm stuff is good to 110kg

FFinnSwede Not technically related to the RHINO, but I saw you built your own VKB adapter. ...

walmis•5/5/23, 5:50 PM

Yeah, I have those available, DM me

Bomkata•5/5/23, 5:58 PM

hello, wondering how well this will work with a 200mm extension

Bomkata•5/5/23, 5:58 PM

kingjamezOP•5/5/23, 6:10 PM

Thanks all for the insight into cable driven systems. That’s super helpful! I too don’t quite understand why the side load forces would be greater. With non-stretch cable the load is low at least in perception (when I tension the wires for zero backlash). My stupid order for belts isn’t supposed to arrive until June so I will be able to go through quite a few iterations to see if I can make something work well before then. If this works, I think it’s lack of specific components (belts, gears, pulleys) would make it a flexible option for FFB systems.

Wwalmis You should be able to tune this with the spring curve tool

Will3D•5/5/23, 6:29 PM

It does help, but there is still some movement. Just wondered if there was anything else I should try.

BBomkata Click to see attachment

Stoned Kakapo•5/5/23, 6:53 PM

im using this same extension, works fine for me even with a heavy TM f18 grip

Bomkata•5/5/23, 7:03 PM

im failing to locate how much this cost?

BBomkata im failing to locate how much this cost?

indifferent badger•5/5/23, 7:20 PM

https://discord.com/channels/965234441511383080/986474224241741884/986478661848948756

indifferent badger•5/5/23, 7:21 PM

I’m making an assumption you are asking about the Rhino itself.

Bomkata•5/5/23, 7:24 PM

yes i just need the base as i have a virpil mongoose stick

Bomkata•5/5/23, 7:25 PM

lol thanks i know i was overlooking it

Bomkata•5/5/23, 7:25 PM

just needed to scroll to the top lol

BBomkata im failing to locate how much this cost?

kingjamezOP•5/5/23, 8:00 PM

about 1/2 what it should... but you pay for the extra by being willing to wait.

BBomkata im failing to locate how much this cost?

peachmonkey•5/5/23, 8:06 PM

check the preorder site: http://order.vpforce.eu/

it's 800 Euro's for the fully built unit (option 9). Otherwise you can build it out of a kit (other options), however the kit is incomplete, it only has motors/electronics/software, the actual enclosure/gimbal/etc you need to design/implement yourself.

Google Docs

VPforce Order Request

Order request for VPforce products.
Please note: to reserve a VPforce RHINO FFB base, please use reservation form here.

Once the order is ready to be fulfilled an invoice will be sent to the provided email address.

kingjamezOP•5/5/23, 9:56 PM

Being in the middle of building one from the DIY kit. The Rhino is an exceptional deal. If you can wait, and don’t need custom enclosures, it’s just huge value / monetary unit.

BBomkata Click to see attachment

Magpie•5/5/23, 11:29 PM

Works great, I had to raise my Sim pit and put the rhino lower into the floor of it to make it ergonomic though

Magpie•5/5/23, 11:29 PM

But you end up with a bout a foot of extension under the grip

Magpie•5/5/23, 11:29 PM

Spitty is still bloody sensitive even with that much throw

ckmoore•5/5/23, 11:39 PM

I'm pretty new here-- so the complete kit (the rhino) is compatible with thrustmaster sticks out of the box?

Cckmoore I'm pretty new here-- so the complete kit (the rhino) is compatible with thrustm...

Number481•5/6/23, 12:17 AM

Yes. Check #

faq .. probably answers a lot of questions you have.

Cckmoore I'm pretty new here-- so the complete kit (the rhino) is compatible with thrustm...

Polack-1•5/6/23, 12:21 AM

yep, Virpil too, since they use the same connector and software supports it. (tested both)

ckmoore•5/6/23, 12:49 AM

Thanks! Looks like i have to start saving, lol

FlatSpin•5/6/23, 1:03 AM

Order one now, it's a long wait, and you don't pay till it's ready to ship.

FFlatSpin Order one now, it's a long wait, and you don't pay till it's ready to ship.

Diverzant•5/6/23, 7:04 PM

Im also new here, what do you recon would be the waiting period?

amadeus•5/6/23, 7:52 PM

!status

Aamadeus !status

VPforceBot•5/6/23, 7:52 PM

Hey @amadeus,
So the last Shipped RHINO is #0090 on 2023-05-04
Average waiting time from preorder to shipped is 161 days, median is 196 days, max is 219 days
89 Rhinos are shipped in total

Does anyone know of another name for a "cable drive"? I'm doing a knockoff of the Rhino and have bee

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