mfad•2y ago

Appropriation vs. Appreciation - Topic of the day 1/30/24

fashion takes inspiration from and incorporates a wide variety of references and cultures. Is there a place you'd draw the line, where fashion has gone too far? Or is it more complicated than that?

j9it45sgd7u•1/30/24, 5:01 PM

https://tenor.com/view/thriller-michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-5577709

Tenor

bishopcorrigan•1/30/24, 5:02 PM

I’m kinda on the side of “I know it when I see it” and always ready to be wrong

bishopcorrigan•1/30/24, 5:03 PM

I’m a free floating being of no specific culture so I just wear stuff that has long been normalized

KissGo-Goat•1/30/24, 5:04 PM

I think there is a difference between culturally significant items and clothes in that regard

bishopcorrigan•1/30/24, 5:04 PM

Clothing can absolutely be culturally significant though

bishopcorrigan•1/30/24, 5:04 PM

And often is

KissGo-Goat•1/30/24, 5:06 PM

Yes maybe I phrased that wrong what I mean is the difference between something that people wear or something with specific religious significance

carrion•1/30/24, 5:08 PM

even just things people wear can be culturally significant and can be appropriated. indigenous fashion in... well, all of the americas are constantly ripped from their cultural context and reappropriated for wealthy, white buyers

bishopcorrigan•1/30/24, 5:09 PM

Hey it’s not just America doing that it’s also Kapital

Sal•1/30/24, 5:09 PM

General rule of thumb is that appreciation tips over into appropriation when there is profit to be made. Profit can look like money, power, influence, notoriety, etc and is usually more significant at larger scales but is easier to identify/police at smaller scales.

Bbishopcorrigan Hey it’s not just America doing that it’s also Kapital

carrion•1/30/24, 5:09 PM

sorry, I meant indigenous groups in the americas are often appropriated, not that only americans are doin it

bishopcorrigan•1/30/24, 5:10 PM

Oh yeah that’s my misread

Sal•1/30/24, 5:13 PM

Usually there's an element of cultural/socioeconomic power dynamics at play with appropriation as well. These are usually unidirectional but not always.

zeometer•1/30/24, 5:13 PM

i'm willing to make an ad hoc judgment call

zeometer•1/30/24, 5:14 PM

i'm black and american, the idea of culture is a minefield

eggtart!•1/30/24, 5:14 PM

I feel like a very common discourse I see is that "people in XYZ country doesn't mean so idk why XYZ-Americans whine" but XYZ are literally the fucking majority culture in their country

Confuzzler•1/30/24, 5:15 PM

ralph lauren working with Native designers is something that should've been done from the beginning. 2023 is soo late

Eeggtart!I feel like a very common discourse I see is that "people in XYZ country doesn't...

Confuzzler•1/30/24, 5:15 PM

big agree

SteezeTrain•1/30/24, 5:15 PM

As a recovered noragi wearer this is a good thread for me

eggtart!•1/30/24, 5:15 PM

And I don't think it's an hard concept either but it feels like a ridiculously common statement

Confuzzler•1/30/24, 5:18 PM

my gripe is when its a "i discovered this" rather than a focus on the craft workers that made it and a focus on the history of it. im not saying people cant just do nothing if its not within their culture but the distinction is just, hey this is cool im going to make it my own, rather than, hey this is cool, i want other people to know why its cool as well and spread the culture, while appreciating the artisans.

Sal•1/30/24, 5:19 PM

Ya that's what I'm talking about

Sal•1/30/24, 5:19 PM

Good lil summary

carrion•1/30/24, 5:19 PM

i expect the bare minimum of any creative working outside of their culture to consult with and compensate people from within the culture they are pulling from - alternatively they can join that culture and speak from the inside.

zeometer•1/30/24, 5:27 PM

i think if there's sufficient adaptation to an item or idea then it shies away from approprition

jfarrell468•1/30/24, 5:30 PM

jfarrell468•1/30/24, 5:37 PM

Just to stir the pot, is this appreciation or appropriation?

j9it45sgd7u•1/30/24, 5:39 PM

i mean what else is a guy in the 1950s-60s supposed to wear?

zeometer•1/30/24, 5:39 PM

of the two choices appreciation

Smiles•1/30/24, 5:40 PM

i don't see the point of this devils advocate baiting

Confuzzler•1/30/24, 5:41 PM

Given it's a style born in elite universities, who cares?

Smiles•1/30/24, 5:41 PM

this seems like thinly veiled whataboutism and its only because I know you I'm assuming it isn't

artvandelayimporting•1/30/24, 5:42 PM

hot take

artvandelayimporting•1/30/24, 5:42 PM

there's a big difference between me wearing a native american headdress

artvandelayimporting•1/30/24, 5:42 PM

and a black guy wearing an ocbd

Smiles•1/30/24, 5:43 PM

being rich isn't a culture

Weeg•1/30/24, 5:43 PM

If you read the book you would realize why this question doesnt make any sense

WWeeg If you read the book you would realize why this question doesnt make any sense

jfarrell468•1/30/24, 5:44 PM

Will do. It's on my list

Weeg•1/30/24, 5:45 PM

Dressing to the style of elites to have your voice heard in a time of massive political and social change really doesnt exist on the spectrum of appropriation and appreciation.

Weeg•1/30/24, 5:47 PM

Like on the base definition of the word it is appropriation but its not the same appropriation that we’re chatting about here

zeometer•1/30/24, 5:50 PM

adjacent question-