50 replies

I had a 30m sync with timothee at

I had a 30m sync with timothee at KubeCon. Important info here. @Noel can you make sure we tag approvers? I am low on time so I gotta spit out some stuff

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 6:59 PM

bootupd will get punted to at least F41

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 6:59 PM

official images are still on track but they won't be signed

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 6:59 PM

dan walsh thinks we can do podmansh and have everything work how people expect.

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 7:00 PM

I am going to meet with him tomorrow to explain

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 7:00 PM

and he has bootc news

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 7:01 PM

timothee says bootc will never support local layering, it's out of scope, the intent will be for the user to make a local image and use bootc. Therefore it will be a long time before atomic moves to bootc upstream

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 7:01 PM

He wants to help with the image names, @bsherman can we tag him on the naming issue and he's going to just tell us how to name them

Jj0rge timothee says bootc will never support local layering, it's out of scope, the in...

Bigpod•3/20/24, 7:05 PM

I thinl what bootc needs is hooks, if you run bootc update also run this command first type deal and everything will work out as then you can easily make local image build be part of bootc update

Bigpod•3/20/24, 7:06 PM

I have been thinking about layering issue for a while when it comes to bootc and only piece missing is some way to run a command before bootc update

Jj0rge He wants to help with the image names, @bsherman can we tag him on the naming is...

bsherman•3/20/24, 7:07 PM

done

Bigpod•3/20/24, 7:08 PM

As everything else is kinda a solved issue

bsherman•3/20/24, 7:11 PM

this thread isn't about bootc development and what-ifs around it, it's about Jorge sharing what he learned... and hopefully how we can take action based on that info

bsherman•3/20/24, 7:12 PM

@Noel looks like Jorge's tag of you didn't work

Noel•3/20/24, 7:15 PM

OK, so bootc is going to be a no go for a long time.

NNoel OK, so bootc is going to be a no go for a long time.

bsherman•3/20/24, 7:16 PM

a bit disapointing, but at least it's clarification.

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 7:16 PM

yeah, no worries, I might push harder in bluefin, we'll find out lol.

Noel•3/20/24, 7:16 PM

I think the development needs to come in DNF.

Noel•3/20/24, 7:16 PM

as folks have been saying.

Noel•3/20/24, 7:16 PM

DNF could handle local layering with bootc and replace rpm-ostree completely.

Noel•3/20/24, 7:17 PM

that would be ideal to not have folks freak out that they have a different command.

NNoel that would be ideal to not have folks freak out that they have a different comma...

fiftydinar•3/20/24, 7:21 PM

But then you'll see posts about Where is my rpm-ostree?Where is my rpm-ostree?

Jj0rge dan walsh thinks we can do podmansh and have everything work how people expect.

Noel•3/20/24, 8:10 PM

very curious to know what he means by that.

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:56 PM

sorry just getting back from dinner

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:56 PM

so, jeefy had a prototype of podmansh working in bluefin but it wasn't quite right

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:56 PM

but like, as I explained what we wanted to Dan he basically knew what we needed, and he's going to explain it to us tomorrow, and then I'm going to give it a shot

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:57 PM

this would just let you use a container for "OS", user would never need to know/care about host stuff, in the CLI.

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:57 PM

So, it get's us way closer to The Final Shape, since that's at least systemd 256+

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:58 PM

it's podmansh with config + a quadlet

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:58 PM

and that would also work 100% in upstream fedora

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:58 PM

it would remove like, so much jank from people's lives

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 8:58 PM

and then we were like, everyone gets what they want, hatters get UBI containers on top of Fedora for a RHEL-like experience, bluefin gets wolfi and ubuntu, etc.

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 9:00 PM

also since the official image thing is likely punted/slow, I was mulling going GA even if we don't get official images, and he agrees. The compose is the same content, and soon we'll have 10 million reasons to say that it's ready

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 9:00 PM

So I'm thinking f40 GA

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 9:01 PM

but also spent a half day with thilo from flatcar getting up to speed on sysexts and stuff. And there's things to explore there also

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 9:02 PM

like for things like -dx, it's going to end up being a nobrainer.

j0rgeOP•3/20/24, 9:02 PM

but as those things land, we can also start to remove a bunch of shit from the images which should shrink them down

Jj0rge this would just let you use a container for "OS", user would never need to know/...

bketelsen•3/21/24, 12:32 AM

I want this so badly it hurts. Please keep us posted

Jj0rge this would just let you use a container for "OS", user would never need to know/...

SFaulken•3/21/24, 1:11 AM

So "userland in a container" ?

j0rgeOP•3/21/24, 1:12 AM

Yep

j0rgeOP•3/21/24, 1:12 AM

Not the whole thing though, just the cli parts, desktop still on the image

SFaulken•3/21/24, 1:12 AM

That's basically what SLE 16 is going to look like, if they decide to offer a Desktop at all, from what I understand.

SFaulken•3/21/24, 1:13 AM

(I don't work for SUSE, just to be clear)

SFaulken•3/21/24, 1:15 AM

I can't remember who was working on it, but somewhere on OBS, there basically exists "GNOME in a box" as a podman container to run on top of microOS

bketelsen•3/21/24, 2:07 AM

That's kind of the opposite isn't it? DE running in a container vs container running in/on a DE? I like the concept tho - Gnome in a box would be pretty dope if I could throw away the box and replace it with new ones... Same in the other direction. Userland completely contained would be nice too if all the right integrations were there.

SFaulken•3/21/24, 2:09 AM

yeah, it's got some handy usecases, especially for corporate environments

j0rgeOP•3/23/24, 10:55 AM

Oh @Noel .. timothee wants to put our key in fedora

j0rgeOP•3/23/24, 10:55 AM

This would at least remove the rebase jank

Jj0rge Oh @Noel .. timothee wants to put our key in fedora

Noel•3/23/24, 11:58 AM

that would be awesome

j0rgeOP•3/23/24, 12:55 PM

Not sure what the steps are, I don't have a matrix login on this laptop but I guess we can ask him where to file an issue

j0rgeOP•3/23/24, 12:55 PM

he made it sound like it wasn't a big deal

I had a 30m sync with timothee at

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