I had a 30m sync with timothee at
I had a 30m sync with timothee at KubeCon. Important info here. @Noel can you make sure we tag approvers? I am low on time so I gotta spit out some stuff
Jbootupd will get punted to at least F41
Jofficial images are still on track but they won't be signed
Jdan walsh thinks we can do podmansh and have everything work how people expect.
JI am going to meet with him tomorrow to explain
Jand he has bootc news
Jtimothee says bootc will never support local layering, it's out of scope, the intent will be for the user to make a local image and use bootc. Therefore it will be a long time before atomic moves to bootc upstream
JHe wants to help with the image names, @bsherman can we tag him on the naming issue and he's going to just tell us how to name them
BI thinl what bootc needs is hooks, if you run bootc update also run this command first type deal and everything will work out as then you can easily make local image build be part of bootc update
BI have been thinking about layering issue for a while when it comes to bootc and only piece missing is some way to run a command before bootc update
BAs everything else is kinda a solved issue
Bthis thread isn't about bootc development and what-ifs around it, it's about Jorge sharing what he learned... and hopefully how we can take action based on that info
B@Noel looks like Jorge's tag of you didn't work
NOK, so bootc is going to be a no go for a long time.
Ba bit disapointing, but at least it's clarification.
Jyeah, no worries, I might push harder in bluefin, we'll find out lol.
NI think the development needs to come in DNF.
Nas folks have been saying.
NDNF could handle local layering with bootc and replace rpm-ostree completely.
Nthat would be ideal to not have folks freak out that they have a different command.
FBut then you'll see posts about 
Where is my rpm-ostree? Nvery curious to know what he means by that.
Jsorry just getting back from dinner
Jso, jeefy had a prototype of podmansh working in bluefin but it wasn't quite right
Jbut like, as I explained what we wanted to Dan he basically knew what we needed, and he's going to explain it to us tomorrow, and then I'm going to give it a shot
Jthis would just let you use a container for "OS", user would never need to know/care about host stuff, in the CLI.
JSo, it get's us way closer to The Final Shape, since that's at least systemd 256+
Jit's podmansh with config + a quadlet
Jand that would also work 100% in upstream fedora
Jit would remove like, so much jank from people's lives
Jand then we were like, everyone gets what they want, hatters get UBI containers on top of Fedora for a RHEL-like experience, bluefin gets wolfi and ubuntu, etc.
Jalso since the official image thing is likely punted/slow, I was mulling going GA even if we don't get official images, and he agrees. The compose is the same content, and soon we'll have 10 million reasons to say that it's ready
JSo I'm thinking f40 GA
Jbut also spent a half day with thilo from flatcar getting up to speed on sysexts and stuff. And there's things to explore there also
Jlike for things like -dx, it's going to end up being a nobrainer.
Jbut as those things land, we can also start to remove a bunch of shit from the images which should shrink them down
BI want this so badly it hurts. Please keep us posted
SSo "userland in a container" ?
JYep
JNot the whole thing though, just the cli parts, desktop still on the image
SThat's basically what SLE 16 is going to look like, if they decide to offer a Desktop at all, from what I understand.
S(I don't work for SUSE, just to be clear)
SI can't remember who was working on it, but somewhere on OBS, there basically exists "GNOME in a box" as a podman container to run on top of microOS
BThat's kind of the opposite isn't it? DE running in a container vs container running in/on a DE? I like the concept tho - Gnome in a box would be pretty dope if I could throw away the box and replace it with new ones... Same in the other direction. Userland completely contained would be nice too if all the right integrations were there.
Syeah, it's got some handy usecases, especially for corporate environments
JOh @Noel .. timothee wants to put our key in fedora
JThis would at least remove the rebase jank
Nthat would be awesome
JNot sure what the steps are, I don't have a matrix login on this laptop but I guess we can ask him where to file an issue
Jhe made it sound like it wasn't a big deal
