so if a module said "give me %50 spring", and you had your spring effect set up at %50 in configurat

so if a module said "give me %50 spring", and you had your spring effect set up at %50 in configurator, it would result in %25 of the actual maximum force the joystick could provide

NNumber481 so if a module said "give me %50 spring", and you had your spring effect set up ...

Sup3rToc0!•5/23/24, 3:41 PM

Aaah okok that clarifies things up. So that being said though, I have spring set to 100%. In the F-14 I feel 100% spring force at all times. This feels incorrect. Sticky setting is not checked. Is there something els that may be off? I fell shake when buffeting so I know DCS is talking to the base.

Aalanek2009 And is it decently easy to do for someone who's never 3d printed anything before...

Arno•5/23/24, 3:44 PM

3D printing really has a steep learning curve particularly if you get one of the cheaper printers. It will be very frustrating at times, it all comes down to very tight settings and tolerances. You can get around that by spending 800 dollars on a printer with all the bells and whistles, they require less manual setup. But that is also what the joystick costs. If you decide not to print yourself, it is probably just as economical to buy a manufactured one from VPForce.

AArno 3D printing really has a steep learning curve particularly if you get one of the...

alanek2009•5/23/24, 3:45 PM

And what would it look like if I were let's say printing in some 3d printer shop? Would it get expensive?

SSup3rToc0!Aaah okok that clarifies things up. So that being said though, I have spring set...

Number481OP•5/23/24, 3:46 PM

AFAIK, the F14 does not model any dynamic forces? I don't really fly it (Im one of those "bought it on sale but never found the time to really use it" people

)

Arno•5/23/24, 3:47 PM

I would only do that for stuff you can't buy. So then I would get the ready made rhino. You can get all the files and upload them here to get a cost estimate: https://jlc3dp.com/

Online 3D Printing Service | Custom 3D Printed Parts - JLC3DP

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NNumber481 AFAIK, the F14 does not model any dynamic forces? I don't really fly it (Im one...

Sup3rToc0!•5/23/24, 3:49 PM

See I fly it a LOT, but I just got FFB and mount set up last night lol. HB states it is dynamic and modeled so I think I’m doing something wrong lol

AArno I would only do that for stuff you can't buy. So then I would get the ready made...

alanek2009•5/23/24, 3:53 PM

And any idea what's the estimate cost if I were to buy parts and 3d print the rest at a friend?

SSup3rToc0!See I fly it a LOT, but I just got FFB and mount set up last night lol. HB state...

Number481OP•5/23/24, 3:55 PM

Other seasoned Rhino owners who fly it often could probably tell you more what to expect, but it doesn't look like the actual spring force is dynamic at all. It is always

(%100). What does change is the center although it is very minimal and doesn't seem to have much affect on the feeling when maneuvering. This is the same technique they are using on the F4 to simulate the bobweight, but it is much more pronounced (maybe a tad too sensitive around 1G IMHO on the F4).

Number481OP•5/23/24, 3:56 PM

NNumber481 AFAIK, the F14 does not model any dynamic forces? I don't really fly it (Im one...

MichalK•5/23/24, 7:50 PM

F14 doesn't have dynamic forces IRL. F4 control system is quite unusual, at least among other jets in DCS.

MichalK•5/23/24, 7:50 PM

The Harrier would also be like that if Razbam implemented Q-feel, but they didn't.

MMichalK F14 doesn't have dynamic forces IRL. F4 control system is quite unusual, at leas...

Sup3rToc0!•5/23/24, 7:53 PM

Isn’t the stick force based on the amount of Gs being pulled?

Sup3rToc0!•5/23/24, 7:54 PM

From a bobweight. I’m not sure if that’s modeled though

MichalK•5/23/24, 8:00 PM

Bobweights are a different thing, and not simulated in dcs until f4.

MichalK•5/23/24, 8:06 PM

Tbh i don't think the effect of bobweights translates well to our 1g desktop sim environment. I mean in general. But you can add that effect through telemffb if you want.

Number481OP•5/23/24, 8:13 PM

I actually like the bobweight effect on the F-4.. it feels better to me than what we do in TelemFFB with the constant force "g effect". They are using the spring center offset to achieve the same effect. It is too sensitive around 1G though which gives a weird sensation of the stick forces changing with minimal control input. They need to add some non-linear component to the calculation or add some dampening to the calculation or something.

Sup3rToc0!•5/23/24, 8:15 PM

Cool, I haven’t set up telemffb yet. I know telem can be used to set up vibration and cool effects like that. Can it be used to add more spring tension dynamically? If not what are some good settings to use to get close to the RL F-14 stick?

AAndyHill gain and spring at 100%, damper 16%, periodic 60%, constant 100%

blave549•5/23/24, 10:24 PM

Don't those settings depend on what you have set in Configurator? E.g. I have Master Gain set to 50%; I haven't touched it in months. My understanding is that that, and all other settings in that app, are what TelemFFB can only further scale down (not up). So your numbers might not work for me if you have different Configurator settings than someone else.

SSup3rToc0!Aaah okok that clarifies things up. So that being said though, I have spring set...

CapnFlint•5/23/24, 11:09 PM

You should feel the trimmed/center position in the F14 with FFB is very forward of normal center.

CCapnFlint You should feel the trimmed/center position in the F14 with FFB is very forward...

Sup3rToc0!•5/24/24, 12:05 AM

Yea I noticed, why is that??

CapnFlint•5/24/24, 12:36 AM

It’s how the real center position is. If you look in the cockpit stick, you’ll see it that way

CapnFlint•5/24/24, 6:05 AM

I just spent some time really re-doingg my stick Balance Spring, and then set the F4 to 200/200 gain in-game and have a slight "Sticky" Damper and Inertia in the VPForce software, and it's was a lot smoother in freeflight than before. There's still some weirdness wobble in slight trim dives and I don't know if that's the F4 or me but overall a lot better for me.

Soy•5/24/24, 6:49 AM

I have a 24V 16.7A power supply from a 3d printer that i was throwing away would this be enough to power the 2 57blf03 motors or do i need something stronger?

SSoy I have a 24V 16.7A power supply from a 3d printer that i was throwing away would...

walmis•5/24/24, 6:54 AM

You could power 2 Rhinos with that

Wwalmis You could power 2 Rhinos with that 🙂

Red Magic•5/24/24, 8:45 AM

Word on MFGs?

VPforceBot•5/24/24, 9:07 AM

:package:

RHINO #0548 Has Shipped!

Aalanek2009 What's the estimate cost of the cheapest DYI full build?

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 9:17 AM

First and foremost we never DIY when the budget exceed what we can buy. That’s foolish. So let’s look at the real cost of a real Rhino. (800 euro or so with some tax, fees, duty, and then some shipping… so maybe let’s say 1000 to walk it in your door?)

Now let’s add the cost of a DIY unit and compare those to see if it’s a good option for you personally.

let’s take into account the base cost of the DIY motor kit from VPforce is like 300 euro so like 350 (after shipping).

Now let’s go ahead and start from that 350 and see our total costs.

The estimated cost of a DIY Rhino varies due to shipping and part availability by region but the best way to find out is to go to the GitHub page.

Open the Assembly page.

Go to page 2 and begin adding everything from the BOM into an Amazon “Wish list” or a “cart”. That helps keep it saved in one spot for you to look back at when needed.

“Just add all the belts and bits and bobs and screws and washers and knobs” until you’ve got it all down on a list.

From there you can cross check the prices from local places or online places like Digikey, etc.

Add that cost to the original 350 to get our total so far and move to the shell.

You can make the shell from anything you like.. There are CAD files if you want to fabricate it from aluminum or wood and there are STL for those who want to 3D print.

There are also some very very crafty individuals here who’s made near complete DIY set ups.

IF you have friends to help or maybe a family member with a 3d printer? Or even a maker space at a local university/etc? it’s going to be a lot easier to get this project started.

I’m guessing the price for DIY is under $600 (350 for motors, 70-100 at Amazon for parts, 50-100 for a power supply..)

BUT that assumes you can fabricate, 3d print, or create the shell…

IF you must buy a 3D printer and print it yourself..

That pushes the costs too high and it’s cheaper to Buy than DIY.

(UNLESS YOU WANTED A PRINTER ANYWAY)

SSoy I have a 24V 16.7A power supply from a 3d printer that i was throwing away would...

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 9:21 AM

Officially the DIY runs on 20v 9amp but within the software you can set it to your specific power supply so you’ll be golden!

SSup3rToc0!Yea I noticed, why is that??

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 9:25 AM

I think pre the days of FBW the assumption was that when a plane is under normal (in flight) conditions it’s actually super tail heavy at neutral stick and G forces make it worse.

So by adding an artificial forward stance it would be closer to a comfortable neutral while under load.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who was a Tomcat pilot but also maybe someone who worked maintenance side…

Man did those guys know some stuff about the birds

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 9:28 AM

Not sure if it’s for the same reasoning but the Blue Angles fly with an artificial pull bar set at 40lbs forward.

So those sticks are artificially held at 40lbs forward at all times (unlike the fleet models where they use the FBW computers… pretty sure the Blues have a modified FCS)

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 9:30 AM

Here’s a cool video where one of the captains explains it.

Super cool stuff to see inside the Echo with all the new screens and stuff

Anyway yeah… 40lbs forward. And stick sits in a stance similar to the F14 irl with that pull. Watch it and see it reposition itself.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3T3At0ksw0

YouTubeLiveAirShowTV

Look inside a Blue Angels F/A-18 Super Hornet cockpit!

Lt. Cary Rickoff, shows you the controls in a Blue Angels F/A-18 Super Hornet! See how slight modifications make the aircraft flown by the U.S. Navy's famous flight demonstration squadron able to perform precision maneuvers that place them within 18 inches of each other!

RELATED VIDEO:
Blue Angels full demonstration from NAS Oceana Air Show: ...

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 9:39 AM

Oh and I should also note:

I do not fly the Tomcat so I can’t help you hunt this specific issue or help with the software fixes that may exist BUT I know the growler/hornet so this is what made me think of why they did that to the F14 (before the days of true fly by wire tech).

Would love to hear from the maintenance or some engineer or some whatever about it… cool interesting stuff for sure

VPforceBot•5/24/24, 10:28 AM

:package:

RHINO #0550 Has Shipped!

TTouch_Of_Legend Oh and I should also note: I do not fly the Tomcat so I can’t help you hunt thi...

Sup3rToc0!•5/24/24, 12:16 PM

Thanks for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense now

TTouch_Of_Legend I think pre the days of FBW the assumption was that when a plane is under normal...

Red Magic•5/24/24, 1:03 PM

Idk about 14, but for normal fixed wing aircraft I think most CoGs are preferred more forward than aft. Makes the aircraft more naturally stable, and want to correct itself when stick released

VKNG•5/24/24, 1:45 PM

does anyone have a good link or tips for a good FFB setup for the F4 yet? i see a few posts here and there but was curious what the consensus was?

Khangirey•5/24/24, 3:37 PM

I haven't flown in a long time. Does the F4 module play well with the VPForce?

Virus•5/24/24, 3:44 PM

Guys is the bot off?

KKhangirey I haven't flown in a long time. Does the F4 module play well with the VPForce?

Touch_Of_Legend•5/24/24, 3:47 PM

Being a brand new release there are no universally agreed upon settings so far as I’ve seen.

It’s basically jump in and test it!

Happy flying!

CapnFlint•5/24/24, 3:50 PM

VPForce is working great, but the F4 has a new FFB/stick method that appears to be taking some time to dial in and get used to.

CCapnFlint I just spent some time really re-doingg my stick Balance Spring, and then set th...

mac22443506•5/24/24, 7:13 PM

So how did u setup in the telem software?(using the base jet profile or adapting an existing planes profile?)

Mmac22443506 So how did u setup in the telem software?(using the base jet profile or adapting...

CapnFlint•5/24/24, 10:34 PM

The balance spring is in the base VPForce software. I haven’t done TelemFFB yet

CCapnFlint The balance spring is in the base VPForce software. I haven’t done TelemFFB yet

mac22443506•5/25/24, 12:09 AM

Ok - but did u manage to get it working without the. Telem software?

Mmac22443506 Ok - but did u manage to get it working without the. Telem software?

Number481OP•5/25/24, 12:16 AM

What is it you are trying to accomplish?

WhereNoLarkFlew•5/25/24, 1:46 AM

Just got done flying it for the first time. What an awesome experience and product

WhereNoLarkFlew•5/25/24, 1:46 AM

There’s no going back from FFB once you’ve tried it.

oblongmushroom•5/25/24, 2:31 AM

how do i purchase the products?

Ooblongmushroom how do i purchase the products?

WhereNoLarkFlew•5/25/24, 2:34 AM

Gotta get on the waiting list

Ooblongmushroom how do i purchase the products?

mechsicko•5/25/24, 3:12 AM

❓faq

WWhereNoLarkFlew There’s no going back from FFB once you’ve tried it.

Touch_Of_Legend•5/25/24, 10:49 AM

Facts… BIG FACTS

Finally took a test flight with her and she’s absolutely everything I wanted her to be plus some..

(And this was at 50% gain for testing…)

It’s seriously something special to watch the nose dip and react to the G force effects just like real life..

Feeling more and more pressure as you pull back on the stick or dive forwards and those G’s compress..

It’s the magic of software and set up and of course the Rhino that makes it all happen but that’s why the Rhino is the top dog imho.

The app and the config make the magic and the hardware of the Rhino bring the simulation closer to reality than it’s ever been.

I’ll echo again what you’ve said and add my own.

You cannot go back from FFB.

It’s an experience that burns into your memory and that’s impossible to ignore or to forget.

This was what it was like irl.. feeling the pressure of the stick or the balance of the yolk is a REAL feeling that up until now I didn’t think was possible for sim.

So yeah Thanks again to Walmis and Sub and 481 and everyone who helped bring this project to the masses.

Feels like I’m preaching to the choir here though because you guys already know

so if a module said "give me %50 spring", and you had your spring effect set up at %50 in configurat

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