My understanding is that also aircraft which trim horizontal stabilizer instead of elevator don’t mo

My understanding is that also aircraft which trim horizontal stabilizer instead of elevator don’t move the stick or yoke while trimming. For example bf109 of DCS birds.

Ssydost My understanding is that also aircraft which trim horizontal stabilizer instead ...

Hiob•9/16/24, 8:44 PM

I see what you mean. I have honestly no idea how that would affect the stick. Probably only very slightly if anything …..

sydostOP•9/16/24, 8:55 PM

I tried it in C185 which is the only aircraft I have flown which trims stabilizer. The yoke always ended up roughly in the same position when trimmed to different speeds. I think ”Probably only very slightly if anything…” is probably quite close.

sydostOP•9/16/24, 9:06 PM

But the funny thing is that I really didn’t notice the difference while flying it until on one day I was wondering how it works and actually measured the yoke position in different trimmed states.

WWhiteHawk77 Question someone had in Reddit about how the Rhino works in Flight Simulator 202...

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一五式艦上戦闘爆撃機Kyūden•9/16/24, 11:22 PM

iirc Boeing and some other aircraft do have backdrive actuators that move the controls when using AP

Artifact•9/17/24, 12:10 AM

I'm very excited but I'm very confused.

Artifact•9/17/24, 12:10 AM

Meaning, my base arrived today

Artifact•9/17/24, 12:11 AM

Is there a Link in the support thread somewhere for drivers and installation instructions?

AArtifact Is there a Link in the support thread somewhere for drivers and installation ins...

Number481•9/17/24, 1:50 AM

Initial setup is all pretty straight forward.. suggest starting with the manual: https://vpforce.eu/downloads/VPforce_Rhino_Manual.pdf

NNumber481 Adaptive recentering (and "balance spring") are features of the rhino that work ...

Vulture•9/17/24, 1:57 AM

Just flew the DCS P-51 with default Rhino setting (no telemffb yet) and it is great; stick does follow trim correctly and the added feel makes gun tracking so much easier! But I still think the P-51 flight model does not have enough trim effect for speed changes; there is really very little change between landing config and roaring along at 400 mph. But I can live with that and perhaps telemffb makes it better.

Vulture•9/17/24, 1:58 AM

Sounds like I don't need adaptive with my setup, short 5cm extension and a light F-16ish grip.

Vulture•9/17/24, 2:07 AM

My experience with pre-fbw jets (T-37/38/F-4/F-15) is that the stick moves a lot fore and aft with trim changes if you trim out the stick forces. The Pawnee and my glider (with spring-biased elevator trim) also result in a significant stick position change at different speeds. Super Cub, with a trimming horizontal tail, moved some, probably because the trimmed elevator (and stick) position moved with the new "trim" position of the stab - but the difference was (I think, it's been a few years) less that with the spring trim in the Pawnee. It is fun discovering how the DCS FMs model this effect. Perhaps my post-USAF career in fighter jet simulation development and testing makes me a bit of a fanatic about this.

VVulture My experience with pre-fbw jets (T-37/38/F-4/F-15) is that the stick moves a lot...

Col. Sanders•9/17/24, 2:12 AM

Have you flown the DCS F4? How does it compare to the real deal?

Vulture•9/17/24, 2:17 AM

Yes (part time tester for HB, and "Vulture" in some of the training missions). It's not bad for this early but still has a few rough edges in the FM that we are working on. I'm really looking forward to setting it up and seeing how it works with the Rhino because the F-4s flight control system really doesn't play well with simple spring joysticks. But overall the "feel" is pretty close; in some areas the sim is easier to fly than the jet, in others its a lot harder. Patience, grasshopper!

VVulture Yes (part time tester for HB, and "Vulture" in some of the training missions). I...

Col. Sanders•9/17/24, 2:39 AM

O man that's super cool. I skipped the training missions as a friend went through them and got me up to speed. I'll have to check them out.

I had a neighbor who flew F4Cs in Vietnam come and fly and he really liked it and thought it felt pretty good. But he hadn't flown it 50+ years.

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一五式艦上戦闘爆撃機Kyūden•9/17/24, 3:01 AM

btw is it possible to set limits for trim following, in case it's not natively supported for certain modules/games? If I understand it correctly, trim actuator can only move the stick until certain limits on the travel in some aircraft, it can not move the stick to the end of the travel

buzzbomb•9/17/24, 4:40 AM

my rhino should be here on wednesday evening

VRFGiPJP•9/17/24, 10:30 AM

How could I cancel pre-order?

Alighierian•9/17/24, 10:44 AM

Best DM Walmis, along with the registration email

VPforceBot•9/17/24, 11:02 AM

:package:

RHINO #0696 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•9/17/24, 11:02 AM

:package: RHINO #0697 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•9/17/24, 11:02 AM

:package:

RHINO #0691 Has Shipped!

VVulture Yes (part time tester for HB, and "Vulture" in some of the training missions). I...

Hiob•9/17/24, 11:36 AM

I always felt that sims are mainly harder to fly (on a regular 2D) monitor due to the lack of depth perception and gut feeling for acceleration. Judging a flight path on final approach (without gimmicks like a HUD and flight path marker) or hovering a helicopter e.g. ...I have no real life flying experience whatsoever though. So maybe I'm completely wrong.

HHiob I always felt that sims are mainly harder to fly (on a regular 2D) monitor due t...

Kite•9/17/24, 11:55 AM

This is also my excuse.

KKite This is also my excuse.

Hiob•9/17/24, 11:57 AM

Well at least I know for sure that VR makes hovering a chopper MUCH easier! I still prefer 2D though.

HHiob Well at least I know for sure that VR makes hovering a chopper MUCH easier! I st...

Kite•9/17/24, 11:58 AM

VR is far better in many ways. What head-set did you try and why do you prefer 2D?

Alighierian•9/17/24, 11:59 AM

Screenshots and 2nd (/3rd etc) monitor use for random stuff would be common pros for pancake.

KKite VR is far better in many ways. What head-set did you try and why do you prefer 2...

Hiob•9/17/24, 12:02 PM

What exactly is it better in apart from Depth perception and maybe FOV? I simply prefer not to wear a headset.

HHiob What exactly is it better in apart from Depth perception and maybe FOV? I simply...

Kite•9/17/24, 12:05 PM

I noticed that in cockpits with a lot of things in the way of seeing out (like F-14) having stereo optics lets you see a lot more as often one eye will have a view. And immersion of course.

Kite•9/17/24, 12:05 PM

Head tracking isn't that good.

Kite•9/17/24, 12:06 PM

Have you tried the Bigscreen beyond?

TheAmazinGreat•9/17/24, 12:16 PM

I’ve only played on a Quest, but spotting and ID were almost impossible in VR in IL2. Flat screen is leaps and bounds better. The immersion was nice so I would just turn on object markers but that is usually locked out in multiplayer.

Kite•9/17/24, 12:17 PM

Which Quest?

TheAmazinGreat•9/17/24, 12:17 PM

Original

Kite•9/17/24, 12:17 PM

Oh wow.... time for another try perhaps.

TheAmazinGreat•9/17/24, 12:19 PM

If I ever do it’ll be Quest 3. I can’t justify a $1000+ headset.

Kite•9/17/24, 12:20 PM

Q3 is a good all around headset.

TheAmazinGreat•9/17/24, 12:20 PM

The VR space needs more competition in the $500 range.

Kite•9/17/24, 12:21 PM

I'm all for it. But for that the market needs more buyers.

KKite I'm all for it. But for that the market needs more buyers.

Stryker990•9/17/24, 12:22 PM

And for that the market needs more cheaper sets

TheAmazinGreat•9/17/24, 12:22 PM

Catch 22, because I’m not a buyer based on the price alone.

Kite•9/17/24, 12:22 PM

True.

TTheAmazinGreat If I ever do it’ll be Quest 3. I can’t justify a $1000+ headset.

Arno•9/17/24, 3:28 PM

The headset is not the expensive part of VR, especially for flight simming, you need a top spec PC to drive it, more expensive than most headsets.

Bob Bushman•9/17/24, 3:56 PM

Yup, its telling that for dcs vr a 4080s is considered a budget option.

Is that because vr is an almost impossible task, or because ED consists of a bunch of drunk idiots that shouldn't be working in the industry?
Well you can guess my opinion.

Jon (Bounty_V)•9/17/24, 3:59 PM

But they're removing single core soon and improving performance on multi core

Surely that means I can use VR on my 3080 soon right

VPforceBot•9/17/24, 4:10 PM

:package:

RHINO #0698 Has Shipped!

HHiob What exactly is it better in apart from Depth perception and maybe FOV? I simply...

Vulture•9/17/24, 4:18 PM

So background, I've been flying aircraft since 1968, and sims (military and PC) a lot, with and without visual/motion/control loaders and now VR and FFB. IMO, VR is the biggest improvement - flying on a flat screen is a nice game, but still a game; VR makes it a simulation. It's not only depth perception, it's the one-to-one correlation to where you are looking as well as the presense of parallax which makes a huge difference. VR is better than the best military dome sim, and I've worked on the best; which is why militaries are going VR also.

j9murphy•9/17/24, 4:20 PM

I love VR as well, the part that is way behind in VR is interacting with the cockpit. PointCtrl works well with DCS, but there are no great options for MSFS or Xplane (other than the mouse which is ok, but not ideal)

Vulture•9/17/24, 4:21 PM

Right now the main problems with consumer VR is FOV and the need for really good pass-through (MR) to allow use in a sim pit and for checking documents, etc. Also the PC horsepower; it's not cheap! But military users are pushing those areas, and that will trickle down to us eventually. I actually did testing on an MR full fidelity Tornado simulator in Germany back in 1993 (!) and it was amazing, but crushingly uncomfortable and the graphics were, well, basic. And now I have it all (except for MR) at home.

Vulture•9/17/24, 4:23 PM

By the way I use a Quest Pro and with eyetracking and DFR it's amazing.

j9murphy•9/17/24, 4:25 PM

I agree FOV could be better, I use the crystal and vertical fov is good, but I would love to have horizontal fov out to 180! That would also help the sense of speed perception quite a bit.

My understanding is that also aircraft which trim horizontal stabilizer instead of elevator don’t mo

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