Thats good cause I haven't even tried the HPGs in 24 yet 🙂 We need to step back to basics to figur

Thats good cause I haven't even tried the HPGs in 24 yet

We need to step back to basics to figure out where the hangup is.. this is just a basic sanity check and is a copy/paste from another troubleshooting I did some time back (sorry if it seems remedial)...

Start MSFS (do not start TelemFFB yet)

Load into the H145/H160 and start a flight on the runway/helipad
Wait for the avionics and ipad to initialize
Pause MSFS
Now start TelemFFB
- When you start TelemFFB, your stick should suddenly go limp as soon as TelemFFB starts, loads the aircraft info in the telemetry window and realizes the sim is paused
Un-pause MSFS
- When you un-pause, the spring force should return to the stick and it will center
On the center display, press the CTRL button (top right soft key)
Press and hold the Trim Release Button
- Verify that when you press the TR button that 'Trim Release' is highlighted on the center display and "OVERRIDE" is displayed on the right display. It should remain lit until you release the TR button.
- While pressing the TR button, move the stick around and verify that there are no spring forces fighting against you and that the yellow box/green crosshair remain together
- Release the TR button somewhere away from center (but not far enough to upset the helicopter) and verify that the spring forces return and hold your stick in the new position
- Recenter the cyclic either by pressing the
```
force_trim_reset_button
```
  force_trim_reset_button
```
force_trim_reset_button
```
  force_trim_reset_button
  button, or by holding TR and moving the stick back towards center and then letting go of TR
- Without pressing TR, slightly deflect the stick away from center and verify that "OVERRIDE" is shown on the right display. It should activate if you deflect the stick %5 (by default) away from the center point in any direction. When you release the stick, the "OVERRIDE" message should disappear

However, what you are describing definitley sounds like what B83 of the H160 does (B82 is fine). If the stick starts moving and just tips the heli while stationary on the pad I would suggest trying build 499. For reference, this is what the 160 was doing... https://discord.com/channels/426503612819046401/1159133211868282941/1304970135068479518 (vid I posted on the Hype discord)

NNumber481 Thats good cause I haven't even tried the HPGs in 24 yet 🙂 We need to step bac...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/27/24, 10:19 PM

I'll give this a shot after dinner. Have to feed the wife lol. I don't want to go back to 499. The heli Flys much better in build 500. If there is an issue on Hypes end perhaps we can have Dave get to the bottom of it

Number481OP•12/27/24, 10:20 PM

I can’t reproduce it on 500 so if you can try 499 to see if that is the issue, it would help.

NNumber481 I can’t reproduce it on 500 so if you can try 499 to see if that is the issue, i...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/27/24, 10:32 PM

Can't reproduce it on build 500 meaning it is only happening to you on build 499?

Number481OP•12/27/24, 10:38 PM

Can’t reproduce it at all. But sounds similar to an issue that was seen on the latest 160 build. Dave said he made the same changes to 160_b83 and 145_b500. I’ve not heard of anyone with issues on b500 but that doesn’t mean there isn’t something unique triggering it.

NNumber481 Can’t reproduce it at all. But sounds similar to an issue that was seen on the l...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/27/24, 11:28 PM

Can you export both your vp config file and the file for the telemffb and send over to me? Let me try that and see if the issue is gone.

NNumber481 Thats good cause I haven't even tried the HPGs in 24 yet 🙂 We need to step bac...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/27/24, 11:56 PM

Okay tried with Build 499 exactly as shown above same issue.

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:05 AM

thats good.. means it should be something simple...

My configurator profile won't do you any good. The only important thing is that you have sufficient spring force enabled in the settings tab and that your centering is sufficient, which yours appears to be. Do disable the "override trim" though as that will only mess things up further and make it impossible to find the issue.

From a TelemFFB perspective, literally the only thing you should have to do from the default config is bind your TR button.

Did you go through the basics steps above?

NNumber481 thats good.. means it should be something simple... My configurator profile won...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:15 AM

I did disable override trim. As for telemffb that's exactly what I did initially was simply bind the TR. Yes I went through the steps in the exact both in build 499 and 500. Same issue. I know the spring force is set properly. No issue when telem ffb isn't running

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:20 AM

I need to know which part of the steps I outlined doesn't work. The entire AFCS implementation in TelemFFB is dependent on all of what I wrote working as described.

NNumber481 I need to know which part of the steps I outlined doesn't work. The entire AFCS...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:21 AM

The stick did not go limp when I started telem ffb

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:23 AM

Is there a way to default the entire telemffb?

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:25 AM

then restart it

NNumber481 then restart it

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:27 AM

I'll give that shot and then just bind the TR button but from what I understand axis control and trim follow is not on by default. Correct?

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:29 AM

its on by default for the HPG Helicopter type since its required for the AFCS implementation... which brings another point.. I believe you said you were using the default HEMS livery.. but just in case.. make sure TelemFFB is matching on the default profile (i.e., it doesn't pop up and want you to create a new profile). If you're seeing the new aircraft popup.. let me know.

NNumber481 its on by default for the HPG Helicopter type since its required for the AFCS im...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:32 AM

It hasn't prompted me to create a new profile and did show matched

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:32 AM

also remember that the tablet settings are per livery

NNumber481 also remember that the tablet settings are per livery

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:33 AM

This I know because I had changed them for each type as described in the vp force manual.

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:38 AM

another stupid question.. the axis dot in configurator moves in the correct direction as you manipulate the stick (ie not reversed)? I know this is a stupid question because you already said you don't have anything mapped in the sim and I'm pretty sure you'd have noticed if the stick was moving backwards in the sim

but if the direction was reversed it could cause a runway condition, so I gotta rule it out...

NNumber481 another stupid question.. the axis dot in configurator moves in the correct dir...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:43 AM

Okay so I reset the config in telemffb. Exit. Went in fs2020. Loaded aircraft, waited for avionics to fire up. Paused. Started telemffb. Mapped my TR button, verified that the heli has a match in telemffb. Unpause sim, same issue.

Yes the direction of my movements move in the direction I move the cyclic. Nothing is reversed

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:47 AM

When I load into the aircraft the stick does not move. Stays put but the 2nd I hit the trim release that is when my heli went to the bar and had a few to many

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:50 AM

Trim follow is not on by default. I have it off currently

Number481OP•12/28/24, 12:52 AM

in TelemFFB can you quickly try binding TR to some other button than your usual TR button? any other button on your cyclic will do... just to see if the behavior is any different.

What you are seeing is not something I have ever seen or every heard of anyone else seeing

NNumber481 in TelemFFB can you quickly try binding TR to some other button than your usual ...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:54 AM

Tried a different button. Same result.

NNumber481 in TelemFFB can you quickly try binding TR to some other button than your usual ...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:57 AM

I don't know what's going on and why this happening. I can also try my laptop. I have an instance of fs2020 on it. I can hook up just the stick to that and try and see if I have the same issue.

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 12:57 AM

Since the memory is stored in the stick shouldn't be an issue

HH145Rotor-Sims I don't know what's going on and why this happening. I can also try my laptop. I...

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:01 AM

my next best suggestion is if you can screen share with me so I can look at TelemFFB, configurator and the sim at the same time to see what's going haywire. We can try the discord voice chat but the only time I've tried that, the screen sharing resolution was pretty bad (may have been a bandwidth issue from the other user.. not sure)

NNumber481 my next best suggestion is if you can screen share with me so I can look at Tele...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:03 AM

Let me try the laptop. Booting up now. This will rule out a pc issue. Next I have another stick I can try to

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:05 AM

are you using a USB hub? If so, any chance you can try direct attach to motherboard? (I know your setup isn't exactly portable

). I've not seen issues specific to MSFS or the 145.. but some folks did have wierd force trim centering issues on the latest rhino firmware that were ultimately caused by their USB hubs (grasping at straws here).

NNumber481 are you using a USB hub? If so, any chance you can try direct attach to motherb...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:12 AM

Okay same issue happens on the laptop. No USB hub. Plugged directly into the laptop

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:16 AM

Okay I just tried a different random joystick. I mapped a button to TR. Same issue. This it not a pc or joystick hardware issue.

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:17 AM

I wonder is dracks is having the same issue and he gets around it because he has hardware force trim on

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:17 AM

what do you mean another random joystick

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:17 AM

no.. hardware force trim has nothing to do with it.. it is all modeled in TelemFFB

NNumber481 no.. hardware force trim has nothing to do with it.. it is all modeled in TelemF...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:20 AM

I wanted to rule out that my max flight stick cyclic top wasn't the issue so what I did was unplug ghr max flight take a VKB joystick plug that in, ran loop back, found a button, bound, set it in telemffb and press the button on the vkb while I phsycially moved the joystick gimbal with my other hand. Same issue

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:22 AM

By using the laptop this also rules out FSUIPC and Mobiflight. I don't have any of that extra stuff on the laptop

HH145Rotor-Sims By using the laptop this also rules out FSUIPC and Mobiflight. I don't have any ...

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:28 AM

if you want to jump in voice https://discord.com/channels/965234441511383080/965234441511383084 we can try to screen share and I can look at it live.. I can't think of what else to have you try but if I see it live and can watch TelemFFB data and configurator it might jump out at me

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:29 AM

Would zoom call be easier?

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 1:30 AM

I use discord on my phone not sure how screen share works

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:31 AM

zoom/teams/whatever will work.. as long as I can see your desktop will DM you

Number481OP•12/28/24, 1:31 AM

if you don't use discord on your PC I dont think it will work well to try to screen share

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 2:35 AM

Just an update guys, @number481 helped me get the cyclic drift issue resolved. He had me set the hands off detection from 2% to 5% and he had me run a bunch of tests and all is working.

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 2:40 AM

@Dracks I can confirm that hardware force trim does not need to be checked off in order to function. In the screenshots you sent me I saw it was on.

Mike T•12/28/24, 2:42 AM

Wow……hats off to Number481

…..tremendous support!

MMike T Wow……hats off to Number481👍…..tremendous support!

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 2:42 AM

Agreed! Amazing people here. We jumped on call together and we walked through a bunch of scenarios and tests. Love this group!

Mike T•12/28/24, 2:45 AM

“Hands off detection”……is that the “Hans on and off dead zone under Axis control in Telemffb??? Can’t see it anywhere else?

MMike T “Hands off detection”……is that the “Hans on and off dead zone under Axis control...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 2:46 AM

Hold on I'll get you a screenshot

MMike T “Hands off detection”……is that the “Hans on and off dead zone under Axis control...

H145Rotor-Sims•12/28/24, 2:54 AM

Number481OP•12/28/24, 3:00 AM

I'm not entirely convinced that the hands-off detection zone was the original culprit, but it is really the only setting we changed from default.. either way I'll take it as a win.

In general however, it is important to make sure that you get reliable hands on/off detection ("OVERRIDE" visible/absent on the PFD) when deflecting the stick against the spring and then releasing it back to center. If you don't reliably get "hands off" (OVERRIDE goes away), AFCS thinks you are still manually overriding and so won't "do its thing".. however simply being in a constant override state should not cause the runaway condition that was originally being seen.

HH145Rotor-Sims Click to see attachment

f14billy•12/28/24, 3:00 AM

So it was something simple! Just had to figure out what it was

f14billy•12/28/24, 3:03 AM

The fact that the software can detect a hands on/hands off setting is amazing to me. So cool.

Thats good cause I haven't even tried the HPGs in 24 yet 🙂 We need to step back to basics to figur

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