15 arcmin ~= 1mm backlash w/ 250mm extension.
15 arcmin ~= 1mm backlash w/ 250mm extension.
MHeh was just calculating it for 300mm. Even at 30arcmin that's only 3mm which is still within the allowed slop spec'd in the maintenance manual of the glider I fly
WI'm lazy so i just drew two lines in cad and put an angle constraint ;)
M
GI'll put an indicator on the version I have when I get home and get an accurate measurement. I'm just using 3d printed arms on it right now (waiting for a broach to show up) and have a 24" cyclic extension. During use there is enough flex in the whole setup that the backlash was undetectable at the grip. Once the aluminum arms are done I will report back. The version below is rated at 3 or 5 Arcmin depending on ratio. I didn't want to wait for them to arrive from China.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310958833.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.16.4efe4548zaGKXd
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001310958833.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.16.4efe4548zaGKXd
aliexpress.com
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
MNot cheap but damn that's precise and I'm sure quite economical vs an American of German version of the same thing lol. For people with more money than space it seems like a great option vs belts. 10:1 doesn't seem unreasonable either, you lose 10% of the input torque for one but Walmis tested the system at 24:1 already with no adverse affects. Might make 'backdriving' the system misbehave though?
Another alternative for belt drive is 'shaft winding' where you drill a cross-hole in the drive shaft or hub and run a steel cable through it with 4-5 wraps either side of the hole before connecting to the final pulley. It's how Roland van Roy did his yoke as seen below. it's used irl too though, my boss at the motion platform place I used to work (E2M Technologies) worked on the Air Force 1 Blackhawk simulator and it was used on some of the axes there.
Another alternative for belt drive is 'shaft winding' where you drill a cross-hole in the drive shaft or hub and run a steel cable through it with 4-5 wraps either side of the hole before connecting to the final pulley. It's how Roland van Roy did his yoke as seen below. it's used irl too though, my boss at the motion platform place I used to work (E2M Technologies) worked on the Air Force 1 Blackhawk simulator and it was used on some of the axes there.
MAdvantage of shaft winding vs belts is compactness and cost. You can use very small drive side which really reduces the overall size considerably by the time you get to the final
WI hadn't really been aware of shaft winding. does it also potentially counter the elasticity of belts? I assume you'd still need a tension system so some flex would be added.
MSort of? Steel cable also has its own elasticity. You need *some kind of tensioning system though it doesn't need to be complicated, just something to get it close enough to final the tension by moving the motor like you would a belt system. Alternative to steel cable is Dyneema/Spectra etc which has much higher load caps per thickness than steel but only like 1% stretch (vs steel cable's 20%) @50% break strength
GThe shaft winding looks like a good idea to explore. 10:1 with my setup and power supply was more than enough for a cyclic setup. Once I have the aluminum arms done I will test the spring effects. I'm running ~5% on damper and 10% on friction at 50% total output. Holds perfectly in place and feels really good.
MThe runs of these are very short though so even steel cable feels solid
WI guess it would depend on the size of the steel cable vs the size of the belt.
WProbably somewhat difficult to get an exact figure on that without going fairly in depth.
MOne more idea for increasing actuation forces on diy 4-ways is screwing the base of the hat-shaft to a flexural plate at the bottom of the housing similar to a force sensing stick base. Actuation force could be tailored by using thicker/thinner flexural plates to combine with the switch force. Would probably need a metal stem at that point but likely some long/thin standoffs could be used as shafts, like M1 size or something? Found M1.6x30mm (3mm od) which seems like it might be just right
MThey come is square shaft too, which would be helpful for keeping the hats clocked correctly
WNice! I'd recommend replacing the diodes with SMAJ24 for good measure, but you can remove them altogether. When working with the PCB, do not remove the top encoder holder, It might throw the calibration off a bit when reassembling. I did desolder the diodes on a couple of boards by alternatingly heating the diode pads from both sides till it went off, so no hot air needed. BTW, your PSU doesn't have that pot to tune the voltage like the Meanwell PSUs usually have? you could tune that to 22-23V and it should be good to go without any modifications.
MAwesome, thanks. No trim pot on my psu I'm afraid. I'm not 100% familiar with part number variations but are these suitable? I think the extra numbers/letters determine packaging form factor but I'm unsure https://www.ebay.com/itm/303141169542?hash=item46949f2986:g:PkYAAOSwwGxg3h~A
eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for (31 PIECE LOT) SMAJ24A-E3/61, VISHAY, TVS DIODE 24V 38.9V DO214AC RoHS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
WYep, those will do
WOne potential issue with this approach is that it creates a pseudo-linear force curve, instead of the snap action, somewhat dampening the tactile feel. However, the last time I tried it was with low actuation force switches, so this effect may not be as big with 500gf switches.
MThis is what I was thinking as well. The tactile click on the 500gf is fairly prominent but too much additional force and it will be lost in the mix. Would require some r&d to find the right balance. I did a quote req for 3mm square 30mm standoffs.. if it's reasonable I'll have a go and report back
MCool thanks, picked up that lot of 31 so if you want some or know of someone else is in the same boat as me I'd be happy to share the extras, they're small enough to ship in a normal letter envelope so shipping is no problem
WYouTubeValmantas Palikša
Contacts:
VPforce Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/Y7YmFGHbee
DCS Forums: https://forum.dcs.world/profile/1984-walmis/
Email: vp@vpforcecontrols.com
Firmware updates/software: https://vpforcecontrols.com/usb/rhino/
VPforce Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/Y7YmFGHbee
DCS Forums: https://forum.dcs.world/profile/1984-walmis/
Email: vp@vpforcecontrols.com
Firmware updates/software: https://vpforcecontrols.com/usb/rhino/
SSweet, hurry up already! i only have so much saliva i can spare before dehydration kicks in 
原"the erection knobs"
Ffirst rhino let loose... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/968791124103790612/974647068238958592/IMG_20220513_141855.jpg
WInternal structure of 86BLF motor. Nice chunky copper windings, lots of mass for heat absorption/dissipation - perfect for FFB 
SGreetings all: 
WGreetings!
SI'm interested in creating a Huey simpit and have been seeking an acceptable FFB stick to use as a cyclic for years.
SThe main thing I'm after is an acceptable "Force Trim" feature.
SIdeally I like to source a B8 grip but in it's absence I assume Virpil's "WarBRD" will be acceptable: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-grip.html
★ Perfect Match for the VPC WarBRD Base
★ Programmable LED Lighting
★ Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock
★ Compatible with all VPC Bases
★ 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)
★ Programmable LED Lighting
★ Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock
★ Compatible with all VPC Bases
★ 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)
SWill all I need be your Rhino FFB base and this WarBRD grip, or are there other components that are also necessary?
WIf you get the Rhino base then only the grip is necessary. There's also motor kits that you can use to implement your own mechanics.
SCool, I'll order the Rhino base then.
SDoes it need AC power at all?
WI can include a power supply, unless you have your own 19-24V 150-200W
SI don't have one, so if you could supply one that would be great.
SI live in Australia but will be able to get my own cable if you find the AU socket hard to source.
SI assume the power supply uses a standard "kettle" or "figure 8" cord, yeah?
SI see you don't recommend using an extension. Is there any reason for that?
SAnd if there's no problem with using an extension are there any simple screw in options available?
SActually I see Virpil have a few options on their site themselves.
WThe base can accept a 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector or an XT60. I'm thinking on moving to XT60 on later rhinos. If you can get a power supply locally then it would be much simpler. Since I can only get an EU plug here atm. I do not recommend an extension simply because it will attenuate the FFB forces. I intended the rhino to be used lifted above the ground, since that gives good force/weight balance for the whole unit :) The whole package is 4.8 kg. The torque is about 5 Nm, so you can roughly calculate the force in kg for a given extension arm. Current pivot to grip thread distance is ~15cm.
SOkay, makes sense.
SI see there are several 3D prints available on Thingyverse so I could always experiment with a few options.
SOkay, looks like I've found a suitable power supply: https://www.mantisfpv.com.au/toolkitrc-adp-180mb-180w-2-34a-power-supply-adapter-with-xt60-output/
MantisFPV
Compatible with most chargers on the market the ToolKitRC ADP-180MB features 180W of power output, with an XT60 connector ready to plug in to the M8, M8s or M6D charger series.
SBTW, which serial number are you up to?
Any chance I could hold out till you make "item 42":
Any chance I could hold out till you make "item 42":
WYeah, that psu looks spot on :)
WI currently only have 20 plates for s/n :D
F@s.bartfast even if you have to use an extension for your project, the Rhino has plenty of power, force trim will work just fine. by the way, i'm using a 24V 10A laptop power supply...
SThat's good.