I hadn't really been aware of shaft winding. does it also potentially counter the elasticity of belt

I hadn't really been aware of shaft winding. does it also potentially counter the elasticity of belts? I assume you'd still need a tension system so some flex would be added.

WWoodspeople I hadn't really been aware of shaft winding. does it also potentially counter th...

mechsicko•5/10/22, 6:46 PM

Sort of? Steel cable also has its own elasticity. You need *some kind of tensioning system though it doesn't need to be complicated, just something to get it close enough to final the tension by moving the motor like you would a belt system. Alternative to steel cable is Dyneema/Spectra etc which has much higher load caps per thickness than steel but only like 1% stretch (vs steel cable's 20%) @50% break strength

Gator•5/10/22, 6:47 PM

The shaft winding looks like a good idea to explore. 10:1 with my setup and power supply was more than enough for a cyclic setup. Once I have the aluminum arms done I will test the spring effects. I'm running ~5% on damper and 10% on friction at 50% total output. Holds perfectly in place and feels really good.

mechsicko•5/10/22, 6:47 PM

The runs of these are very short though so even steel cable feels solid

WoodspeopleOP•5/10/22, 6:48 PM

I guess it would depend on the size of the steel cable vs the size of the belt.

WoodspeopleOP•5/10/22, 6:48 PM

Probably somewhat difficult to get an exact figure on that without going fairly in depth.

WWoodspeople Ah. That makes sense. I wonder if it would be possible to create a design that g...

mechsicko•5/10/22, 7:07 PM

One more idea for increasing actuation forces on diy 4-ways is screwing the base of the hat-shaft to a flexural plate at the bottom of the housing similar to a force sensing stick base. Actuation force could be tailored by using thicker/thinner flexural plates to combine with the switch force. Would probably need a metal stem at that point but likely some long/thin standoffs could be used as shafts, like M1 size or something? Found M1.6x30mm (3mm od) which seems like it might be just right

mechsicko•5/10/22, 7:12 PM

They come is square shaft too, which would be helpful for keeping the hats clocked correctly

Mmechsicko ... @walmis my package arrived safe and sound yesterday and everything looks gr...

walmis•5/10/22, 7:21 PM

Nice! I'd recommend replacing the diodes with SMAJ24 for good measure, but you can remove them altogether. When working with the PCB, do not remove the top encoder holder, It might throw the calibration off a bit when reassembling. I did desolder the diodes on a couple of boards by alternatingly heating the diode pads from both sides till it went off, so no hot air needed. BTW, your PSU doesn't have that pot to tune the voltage like the Meanwell PSUs usually have? you could tune that to 22-23V and it should be good to go without any modifications.

Wwalmis Nice! I'd recommend replacing the diodes with SMAJ24 for good measure, but you c...

mechsicko•5/10/22, 7:31 PM

Awesome, thanks. No trim pot on my psu I'm afraid. I'm not 100% familiar with part number variations but are these suitable? I think the extra numbers/letters determine packaging form factor but I'm unsure https://www.ebay.com/itm/303141169542?hash=item46949f2986:g:PkYAAOSwwGxg3h~A

eBay

(31 PIECE LOT) SMAJ24A-E3/61, VISHAY, TVS DIODE 24V 38.9V DO214AC R...

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for (31 PIECE LOT) SMAJ24A-E3/61, VISHAY, TVS DIODE 24V 38.9V DO214AC RoHS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

walmis•5/10/22, 7:32 PM

Yep, those will do

Mmechsicko One more idea for increasing actuation forces on diy 4-ways is screwing the bas...

WoodspeopleOP•5/10/22, 7:41 PM

One potential issue with this approach is that it creates a pseudo-linear force curve, instead of the snap action, somewhat dampening the tactile feel. However, the last time I tried it was with low actuation force switches, so this effect may not be as big with 500gf switches.

WWoodspeople One potential issue with this approach is that it creates a pseudo-linear force ...

mechsicko•5/10/22, 7:49 PM

This is what I was thinking as well. The tactile click on the 500gf is fairly prominent but too much additional force and it will be lost in the mix. Would require some r&d to find the right balance. I did a quote req for 3mm square 30mm standoffs.. if it's reasonable I'll have a go and report back

Wwalmis Yep, those will do

mechsicko•5/10/22, 7:50 PM

Cool thanks, picked up that lot of 31 so if you want some or know of someone else is in the same boat as me I'd be happy to share the extras, they're small enough to ship in a normal letter envelope so shipping is no problem

walmis•5/11/22, 10:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVgBk28JVY

YouTubeValmantas Palikša

Quickie: Powering up the VPforce RHINO FFB

Contacts:
VPforce Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/Y7YmFGHbee
DCS Forums: https://forum.dcs.world/profile/1984-walmis/
Email: vp@vpforcecontrols.com

Firmware updates/software: https://vpforcecontrols.com/usb/rhino/

Wwalmis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVgBk28JVY

sko•5/11/22, 6:55 PM

Sweet, hurry up already! i only have so much saliva i can spare before dehydration kicks in

Wwalmis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVgBk28JVY

原

原子力Hoshino•5/12/22, 3:13 AM

"the erection knobs"

Flashgod_VR•5/13/22, 12:30 PM

first rhino let loose... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/968791124103790612/974647068238958592/IMG_20220513_141855.jpg

walmis•5/13/22, 2:15 PM

Internal structure of 86BLF motor. Nice chunky copper windings, lots of mass for heat absorption/dissipation - perfect for FFB

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 12:53 PM

Greetings all:

walmis•5/14/22, 12:54 PM

Greetings!

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:41 PM

I'm interested in creating a Huey simpit and have been seeking an acceptable FFB stick to use as a cyclic for years.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:41 PM

The main thing I'm after is an acceptable "Force Trim" feature.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:43 PM

Ideally I like to source a B8 grip but in it's absence I assume Virpil's "WarBRD" will be acceptable: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-grip.html

VPC WarBRD Grip

★ Perfect Match for the VPC WarBRD Base
★ Programmable LED Lighting
★ Available with Optional Lockable All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism, or with a Fixed Grip Stock
★ Compatible with all VPC Bases
★ 10% Discount When Purchased with VPC Base (applied at checkout)

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 1:55 PM

Will all I need be your Rhino FFB base and this WarBRD grip, or are there other components that are also necessary?

walmis•5/14/22, 2:34 PM

If you get the Rhino base then only the grip is necessary. There's also motor kits that you can use to implement your own mechanics.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:35 PM

Cool, I'll order the Rhino base then.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:35 PM

Does it need AC power at all?

walmis•5/14/22, 2:36 PM

I can include a power supply, unless you have your own 19-24V 150-200W

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:37 PM

I don't have one, so if you could supply one that would be great.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:38 PM

I live in Australia but will be able to get my own cable if you find the AU socket hard to source.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:39 PM

I assume the power supply uses a standard "kettle" or "figure 8" cord, yeah?

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:41 PM

I see you don't recommend using an extension. Is there any reason for that?

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:41 PM

And if there's no problem with using an extension are there any simple screw in options available?

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:43 PM

Actually I see Virpil have a few options on their site themselves.

walmis•5/14/22, 2:56 PM

The base can accept a 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector or an XT60. I'm thinking on moving to XT60 on later rhinos. If you can get a power supply locally then it would be much simpler. Since I can only get an EU plug here atm. I do not recommend an extension simply because it will attenuate the FFB forces. I intended the rhino to be used lifted above the ground, since that gives good force/weight balance for the whole unit :) The whole package is 4.8 kg. The torque is about 5 Nm, so you can roughly calculate the force in kg for a given extension arm. Current pivot to grip thread distance is ~15cm.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:57 PM

Okay, makes sense.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 2:58 PM

I see there are several 3D prints available on Thingyverse so I could always experiment with a few options.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 3:11 PM

Okay, looks like I've found a suitable power supply: https://www.mantisfpv.com.au/toolkitrc-adp-180mb-180w-2-34a-power-supply-adapter-with-xt60-output/

MantisFPV

ToolKitRC ADP-180MB 180W 2.34A Power Supply Adapter With XT60 Outpu...

Compatible with most chargers on the market the ToolKitRC ADP-180MB features 180W of power output, with an XT60 connector ready to plug in to the M8, M8s or M6D charger series.

Slartibartfast•5/14/22, 3:13 PM

BTW, which serial number are you up to?
Any chance I could hold out till you make "item 42":

walmis•5/14/22, 3:21 PM

Yeah, that psu looks spot on :)

walmis•5/14/22, 3:22 PM

I currently only have 20 plates for s/n :D

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 4:55 AM

@s.bartfast even if you have to use an extension for your project, the Rhino has plenty of power, force trim will work just fine. by the way, i'm using a 24V 10A laptop power supply...

Slartibartfast•5/15/22, 6:16 AM

That's good.

Slartibartfast•5/15/22, 6:17 AM

As I say, the main feature I'm hoping for is "force trim" in helis, so hopefully even a relatively light force would be enough for that.

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 6:22 AM

it's working like a charm in the Huey. with the configurator software you can tune the power, set it and forget it, saved and stored in the firmware. the stick can be very stiff if trimmed, as much as you like. holding down the trim button releases the forces and the stick becomes "light" for maneuvering.

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 6:35 AM

DCS's FFB implementation is a hidden gem since the release of Blackshark over a decade ago. standard stick users don't have any idea what they are missing.

Flashgod_VR•5/15/22, 2:03 PM

have spent almost 3 days now with the Rhino, going through all DCS modules and really appreciate how much finesse and smart design decisions @walmis put into it. it's an excellent joystick base, simply awesome.

FFlashgod_VR DCS's FFB implementation is a hidden gem since the release of Blackshark over a ...

Otto•5/15/22, 2:46 PM

That's completely true.... Once you realize ffb... You never go back. You can't. It just isn't the same.

Wwalmis The base can accept a 5.5/2.5mm barrel connector or an XT60. I'm thinking on mov...

Vladinsky•5/15/22, 2:52 PM

Does 5Nm refer to the motor output or after the reduction?

VVladinsky Does 5Nm refer to the motor output or after the reduction?

walmis•5/15/22, 2:52 PM

Yes, after reduction

I hadn't really been aware of shaft winding. does it also potentially counter the elasticity of belt

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