Pcheers m8
DThis was the last correspondence I had with him via PM
DHaven’t heard from him since
Pdam it wtf he have to go do that for
LNot a Virpil desk mount but the geometry and the extension is almost the same. My feedback: you probably need less throw than you think. I have found it is more important to sit closer to the desk and be able to reach everything in the front panel which you also have in your design. I've got Cougar MFDs on the edge of the table. I can reach those comfortably too. It's not just the throw, it's the overall ergonomics. I have a throw limiter plate with 18° / 12° angles and the physical stick moves a lot further than the virtual one does in DCS. I fly both 
and 
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and .
IThat is my question. Does DCS ask directinput for 35 percent (of max) or say 5 n of force? I would think that if you wanted to simulate something as accurate as possible the latter would be best.
NThanks for the feedback. Yeah, I don't imagine the full 22 degrees would (ever) be required..but didn't want to limit myself too much. I think the CM3 I am currently using is only +/- 15 or so
MJust a percentage I’d say
NWhile I hope to build this out of aluminum at some point.. I think my first iteration is going to be plywood, a 2x4 and some adjustable furniture legs from Amazon
N
VNothing wrong with that! If you really want a metal one don't make it too fancy with birch plywood and stain or you'll lose all motivation to upgrade it once it's beautiful and works perfectly!
Ihttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/desktop/ee417675(v=vs.85) Seems like you are correct, but directinput returns the actual force applied so I guess that could be used by the developer to adjust for the exact force experienced by the pilot.
WMy setup is about 24Nm. But you lose so much with extensions. I'm about 400mm from pivot point and currently need ~7kg of force at full deflection. I'm considering a 5:1 gearbox on the 86BLF04 motors (along with the pulley setup) which would double that. Realistically I don't think I can go much further though, not without larger motors, which aren't available. And then the VPForce board wouldn't be able to drive the extra current they would draw either.
Pyeah right, I have the Rhino & a 200mm vkb extension & use the mcgu which I can feel the difference compared to when I use the extremely light kg12 v2 grip, although with the kg12 grip & full gain, spring etc. I do get a decent amount of force, I think a 24Nm build would suffice for me. Maybe in the future if Walmis can intergrate some of those crazy pankacke motors for e-scooters etc. then a build with irl stick forces would be an idea I'd def look into.
Tso you are fine with the MCGU + 200mm extension or do you think the MCGU is too heavy when paired with the 200mm extension?
Pwell the thing is I mostly fly modern jets & helicopters with the mcgu & have the stick feeling lighter anyway, (at least for the FBW eg. FC3 F-15c). I'm pretty sure ppl here are using the TM F-18 grip with extensions on the Rhino & that grip is even heavier. The mcgu is a really good stick for heli's & modern aircraft, I mean really it's still good for warbirds (the brake lever eg.) or GA too & it has so many buttons, hats etc. & options to swap hats for axis & in the software you can still have the axis mini sticks act both ways. Also being able to still use the vkb software is a bonus. If you fly modern incl. FBW & warbirds/GA too, then maybe consider getting a second grip like the kg12.
PI have thought about getting the mcgu grip shell 3d printed or resign, something strong & lightweight. I'm not sure about the weight difference but check out the virpil's CM2 it's a modern Russian style grip.
TThanks for the feedback! I fly mostly helis and Warbids. I use for heli a Virpil Alpha-R as cycliq and for fixed wings/ warbirds a MCGU (that replaced a VKG SCG Space Combat). For me the MCGU is by far the best stick I had so far in terms of feel (a little bit to large however for my smaller hands). Unfortunately it is already too heavy with a 200mm extension to be used as a cyliq with the GF MK.III. The Virpil Alpha-R is also made of metal but it really doesn‘t feel as nice as the MCGU. At least to me.
I am waiting for my Rhino and I hope that I will be able to use my MCGU. Worst case I will use my Virpil Alpha-R.
I am waiting for my Rhino and I hope that I will be able to use my MCGU. Worst case I will use my Virpil Alpha-R.
POh you'll deff be able to use your mcgu, I do & it's fine, 9Nm is still a decent amount of torque, one of the Logitech steering wheels can have as little as 3Nm of peak torque, even the Fanatec CLS with the boost kit only has 8Nm. Just get the kg12 for warbirds m8, it's got all the buttons you need for a warbird really. Also I've considered adding a left SCG (from the EVO I'm using atm for collective) to the GF III base & add a small dampener to it & mount it to be used as a collective, until I get a proper one.
TI use the Virpil collective, it is good but honestly it could be better as like many other people I did the Nyogel mod and I added a dampener. I am sure the V2 will be better.
ANot his first rodeo. He did basically the same thing on the ED forums a couple years before the Discord. A shame that he couldn't get his products to market, but trying to do everything all at once is not easy.
NUpdated my design to make building it a bit more achievable.. will use a on online laser cutting and bending service to have the pieces made. Will be using some adjustable furniture legs I found as the feet for the mounting plate.. Probably won't have it made with the logo cutout, but it looks cool in the rendering 
WYup, would love to see an X8 pro motor option!
V:package: 
RHINO #0086 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0086 Has Shipped!NTemporary redneck mount… works pretty well so far.
KI don't know man, that looks pretty solid to me. I'd have a hard time paying a bunch of money to make that only slightly better.
NHaha. Yeah, it is pretty solid. Some black spray paint would go a long way in making it look less red-neck-ish.
At least it gives me some time to decide if I want to spend the $120 to have pieces made (plus an extra $60-80 if I want them powder coated or anodized).
At least it gives me some time to decide if I want to spend the $120 to have pieces made (plus an extra $60-80 if I want them powder coated or anodized).
LStowing it might get a bit annoying because when unpowered, the stick will fall.
LNothing redneck about the looks, just give it a lick of paint.
LTest with max torque 
ofc
ofcMMate just get a whole plywood board and bolt that to the pedals and bolt the stick to that. Then use the weight of your chair to keep it stable
MYou can thank me later, you'll get far more use out of your rudder when you know you can kick it without it skidding
MOr just use it for little 5mm movements
NWas that for me? I can kick my pedals all day long. Micro suction “tape” on each of the 4 feet keep it extremely secure, yet I can peel it up and move it if needed. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M7FC1K8. Also locking roller blade style wheels on my chair.
NI work and play from the same desk so it all needs to be movable.
V:package: 
RHINO #0087 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0087 Has Shipped!V:package: RHINO #0089 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0089 Has Shipped!V:package: 
RHINO #0090 Has Shipped!
RHINO #0090 Has Shipped!
D
WPosted some details in showcase channel https://discord.com/channels/965234441511383080/972180323787997255/1103681326546161724
JI'm very excited for the potential that has. Especially looking forward to when Walmis is able to snag a set himself.
KDoes anyone know of another name for a "cable drive"? I'm doing a knockoff of the Rhino and have been modeling up a drive using steel wire or kevlar thread. It's a technique I learned from an old 3d printer I used to own: http://bootsindustries.com/cable-drive-system-rostock-3d-printer-bi/
KHowever, searching online I see very little talk about cable drives... I'm thinking there must be another name for it that I'm missing. ~to me~ it seems very well suited to a FFB stick and I don't have to wait for shipping from China for a belt.
Ki think I can get fairly high gear ratios because the motor end pulley can be very close to the shaft size.
KI'm building two cable drive gear sets right now. One with steel wire one with kevlar wire, and already have the HTD gears done.... just waiting on the belts to arrive. I plan to test them all, but am just looking for any advice from others who have used this method.
WUsing the large 86blf04 motors I find they don’t have much torque around centre. I don’t have play in my system as the smallest movement registers in the VPForce software. I’ve tried increasing the spring curve around centre and it helps a little. Is there any way to improve this further? Or is it inherent in these motors ?
WYou should be able to tune this with the spring curve tool
JThe reason why you might not find much information on that is that the smaller the radius, the higher the force in the cable, which is theoretically good, as you would need only a relatively small pulley on the gimbal for the same final torque.
...but also, the higher the force in the cable, the higher the force the bearings need to hold. If you increase this force too high, the bearings might fail fairly quickly.
And I am not too keen on how easy it is to replace the bearings inside the motor.
The pre-tension you need in a cable drive is also higher than in a toothed pulley drive.
...but also, the higher the force in the cable, the higher the force the bearings need to hold. If you increase this force too high, the bearings might fail fairly quickly.
And I am not too keen on how easy it is to replace the bearings inside the motor.
The pre-tension you need in a cable drive is also higher than in a toothed pulley drive.
MI just found that issue too with XpForce. Where the hell do we get it from? 
(whilst we wait for the better solution from Walmis for MSFS that is)
I see on another forum that the author says it's a false positive. Did you find it was ok?
(whilst we wait for the better solution from Walmis for MSFS that is)I see on another forum that the author says it's a false positive. Did you find it was ok?
STension on the cable is much less than what a belt would need. it's just enough to keep it in the rollers. Also, the side loading on the motor shaft is almost nothing- since the cable pulls are 180 degrees apart. A belt has to be pulled tight in one direction to keep the teeth from skipping. Also if you're looking for a better name than 'cable drives', look for 'flight control cables'
