And hot take: if we're going to be critical of such things, walmis doesn't even have a fleshed out a

And hot take: if we're going to be critical of such things, walmis doesn't even have a fleshed out amazing quality website

But look how many orders he has.

JJon (Bounty_V)And hot take: if we're going to be critical of such things, walmis doesn't even ...

nubbins•6/21/24, 9:50 PM

the point was more about quality, not quantity - not like vendors like Tianhang have a crazy web presence either
but it's also a fair point that there are plenty of good honest companies with low presentation effort, and plenty of scams that look polished

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:51 PM

Granted one big difference between Flitesim and VPForce is track record. No one has hands on the yoke yet, the Rhino is tried and true

LastRonin•6/21/24, 9:51 PM

A lot of these issues are on the size of marketing teams. Different example, but you can see how Pimax has really rough marketing as most of the org is dedicated to the engineering side. Varjo is ironically larger even if from a consumer perspective less people know about it.

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:51 PM

Also Varjo completely dropped consumer by discontinuing the Aero

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:51 PM

They're prosumer only now

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:52 PM

(by that I mean, one doesn't expect a consumer to have $4.5k + $3k in yearly software subscription feels lying around)

LastRonin•6/21/24, 9:53 PM

Going back to that post about Flitesim's yoke, to be fair there are many orgs that need pilot training right now and specifically need XR functionality so, not entirely unexpected that Varjo shifted their focus

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:54 PM

Vrgineers, big partner with XTAL, is in partnership with the Somnium VR1 for military side distribution (presumed sim training and soldier training)

JJon (Bounty_V)Vrgineers, big partner with XTAL, is in partnership with the Somnium VR1 for mil...

LastRonin•6/21/24, 9:55 PM

Which reminds me, the VR1 is priced similar to the XR4

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:55 PM

Yeah

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:56 PM

Base model doesn't make sense for the price, and the full feature model is an AVP in price

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:57 PM

Which makes Quest 3 still the most accessible mixed reality + hand tracking HMD for PC (given people can have a better way to utilize them on PC which isn't available atm)

LastRonin•6/21/24, 9:58 PM

I still want to see how the PSVR2 does when the PC module comes out. Though right now it's lacking a lot of functionality outside basic integration

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 9:59 PM

Yeah, though it is suspected one dev may get those features working at some point, the absence of them makes it too hard a sell for me to justify buying; I already have an Index and Quest 3.

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:00 PM

Also the fresnel lenses but, depending on how good they are (haven't tried them), it might be better than low quality aspheric or pancake lenses. And that age old debate about how much light can get through the lens

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:15 PM

winwing talking force feedback

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:15 PM

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:21 PM

Someone asked who would be next? It's Winwing

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:22 PM

I feel like at this point we could just look at the order of speakers to know who will be next to announce ffb

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:23 PM

Year of FFB. At least with SimApp we kind of know what to expect from winwing's implementation for better and worse

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:23 PM

Yeah in a market stagnant for innovation and 'new' types of products, FFB will by default be far more exciting than anything else announced

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:24 PM

This year's FSE gets an 11/10 from me so far

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:26 PM

Still looking for more on the rudder front particularly since that's ripe. I don't we'll see anything interesting on the throttle front though

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:31 PM

Yeah agreed. Worst case there's always the FFB kit for MFG Crosswinds

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:34 PM

The worst case is actually brunner

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:34 PM

If one has the budget, yeah

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:34 PM

MFG crosswinds + ffb kit is some $800-900 when you factor shipping as well

AndyHill•6/21/24, 10:39 PM

has there been even a hint of the turbo hyper mega taurus ffb throttle yet?

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:41 PM

WinWing presentation ended no throttle hints.

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:41 PM

yeah big sadge

ddrake1984•6/21/24, 10:42 PM

I think throttle is coming, its just not ready to announce

Dddrake1984 I think throttle is coming, its just not ready to announce

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:44 PM

If you could try and get anything out of them while on the floor that would be great. Something to at least say the project isn't dead

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:44 PM

Looking at the schedule it doesn't look like we can expect any presentations from Virpil or VKB. Virpil will have a presentation at their own booth, and focus on their new Cadet lineup.

JJon (Bounty_V)Looking at the schedule it doesn't look like we can expect any presentations fro...

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:44 PM

Probably that new CM4 looking throttle with the cadet grip

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•6/21/24, 10:45 PM

most likely yeah

LastRonin•6/21/24, 10:46 PM

A good question is since other people have gone low end. A cadet joystick something to compete with ursa/NXT?

LLastRonin If you could try and get anything out of them while on the floor that would be g...

ddrake1984•6/21/24, 11:03 PM

Throttle will make a comeback

Ice•6/21/24, 11:09 PM

You know what, I honestly think we can likely thank Walmis for all these new sticks. Companies no doubt saw how well his base was selling and decided to finally jump back into the market.

Ice•6/21/24, 11:10 PM

It can't be a coincidence that they release stick bases right when Walmis is hundreds of pre-orders in lol

AndyHill•6/21/24, 11:15 PM

there's no doubt that whatever FFB is in a few years it's largely thanks to vpforce

AndyHill•6/21/24, 11:16 PM

they proved that it can be done and there's interest because it's awesome

Ice•6/21/24, 11:17 PM

I still think VPForce will be the top dog. The software is what makes these sticks great. The configurator and TelemFFB are works of art.

Ice•6/21/24, 11:17 PM

Makes the sim experience just incredible.

Ice•6/21/24, 11:18 PM

I wonder if TelemFFB could be made to work with the other bases eventually, maybe sell it as a paid software for non-Rhino owners.

LastRonin•6/21/24, 11:20 PM

I think it relies on firmware. If there was a way to flash maybe. I could also see maybe some companies being willing to make an API.

LeviathanDm•6/21/24, 11:22 PM

I agree. At some point sim community would need to erect a memorial somewhere for Walmis as a FFB pioneer.

Number481•6/21/24, 11:23 PM

Some of the more magical things about TelemFFB's capabilities are due to walmis adding functionality to the firmware that is not part of the standard DirectX API. Which is why TelemFFB talks to the Rhino at the driver level and not via DirectX, which is also why it doesn't work with other FFB devices.

LLastRonin Someone asked who would be next? It's Winwing

nubbins•6/21/24, 11:23 PM

looks expensive if the language is suggestive of the intended audience

NNumber481 Some of the more magical things about TelemFFB's capabilities are due to walmis ...

Ice•6/21/24, 11:23 PM

Makes sense. Your work and his work are just incredible. Huge hats off to y'all.

Ice•6/21/24, 11:24 PM

I was sold the moment I hopped into the UH-1H and it felt exactly like the real one I flew.

And hot take: if we're going to be critical of such things, walmis doesn't even have a fleshed out a

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