I have never seen any video online of people using a force feedback (FFB) system with MSFS. Are you

I have never seen any video online of people using a force feedback (FFB) system with MSFS. Are you able to explain what it feels with / without FFB? I learnt to fly 20 years ago in Cessna 152 & 172's. When I use my Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo for setting trim, it is horrible, feels nothing like the real thing. As soon as I take off IRL I would hold the yoke and trim to climb, you get zero feedback with the Alpha & Bravo in MSFS. I stopped flying the Cessna's in MSFS because of the lack of feeling through the controls. They are still great controls, but the zero feedback is no fun for me at least. I have jumped into airliners and never looked back, I love the Fenix & FBW.

AndyHill•7/7/24, 12:29 PM

not a guarantee of compatibility with your stick though, but I suppose it's promising

AAndyHill not a guarantee of compatibility with your stick though, but I suppose it's prom...

AV8OP•7/7/24, 12:31 PM

That's good to know. Thank you. I'm not too worried about the sidestick itself, the airbus is pretty basic with regards to button / trigger functions. As long as it can be connected to the VPforce base which you have confirmed it will, so it's all good!

Bob Bushman•7/7/24, 12:49 PM

If it works worth a warthog base with an adaptor, no reason to think that adapter wouldn't work on the rhino.

AAV8 I have never seen any video online of people using a force feedback (FFB) system...

Dracks•7/7/24, 12:50 PM

Yes, I know what you mean. I'll explain how I feel. In very short and mega simplified

: The base produces vibrations that simulate real effects (vibration of engines, wheels on the ground, etc...) so when you play, the VPForce software reproduces the effects coming from the game. Basic example. You land an airplane, and well, the wheels will produce a force in the game that will be transmitted to your joystick. Basically, the landing sensation will be 100× more realistic than without FFB. As soon as you play 1x with FFB, you'll immediately understand these brief explanations. A helicopter VRS or a stall, well, you'll feel it. If you've ever flown a plane or a car (....), you'll get the feel of it!
In fact, I've stopped playing with my Honeycomb Alpha because 0 sensations and you feel more like shaking a stick than controlling a plane. Sorry for these light explanations, but we're really talking about improving in-game sensations.
For example, my base transmits the start-up of my H145 and my whole frame vibrates (slightly). So you add a VR headset and you almost feel like you're in the aircraft. I wouldn't go back for anything! It's just incredible!

Reed•7/7/24, 1:23 PM

The Kiowa has 8.8” total travel and the resistance is 1+-0.5 lbs. I’m going to print a 10 degree limiter to cut down my total travel. How do I ensure I’m marching the resistance? Is there a math formulae based on all the effects in the setting tab for example spring ?

DDracks Yes, I know what you mean. I'll explain how I feel. In very short and mega simpl...

SamNFTY•7/7/24, 1:29 PM

If you've ever flown a plane or a car

Inquiring minds want to know....

AAV8 I have never seen any video online of people using a force feedback (FFB) system...

Flo-Soft•7/7/24, 1:40 PM

If you are missing the trimming experience of a yoke I recommend taking a look at flitesim dot com and the youtube review of simhangar.

AndyHill•7/7/24, 2:08 PM

if you're measuring resistance in lb instead of Nm, it depends on the length of your stick

AndyHill•7/7/24, 2:08 PM

easiest way to determine that would be to just measure what you get

FFlo-Soft If you are missing the trimming experience of a yoke I recommend taking a look ...

AV8OP•7/7/24, 2:11 PM

I saw the Flite Sim presentation at the recent expo and I also watched the youtube video you are referring to. Very exciting times for flight simming. I have just started to build an A320 home cockpit. Pedastal is 99% completed. Going to work on the Capt sidestick pedastal next and then the Captains chair. I am taking a break from flying the Cessna's and I am loving the learning curve / process of the Airbus family. I am torn between building a full size home cockpit of the A320 or the A380...

SSamNFTY > If you've ever flown a plane or a car Inquiring minds want to know....

Dracks•7/7/24, 2:13 PM

Haven't you seen Back to the Future?

All kidding aside, a little mistranslation

SamNFTY•7/7/24, 2:14 PM

I mean, it's a possibility... I've very briefly been airborne in a car. It certainly wasn't very controlled, so I wouldn't call it flying though

AAndyHill easiest way to determine that would be to just measure what you get

Reed•7/7/24, 3:29 PM

I know. Only able to use the data I can find from the aircraft manuals and sme who are answering questions

Reed•7/7/24, 3:36 PM

I think 1lbs is 4.44 newtons

Reed•7/7/24, 3:43 PM

I just ordered a digital force gauge.

Koozie•7/7/24, 9:14 PM

Sorry I’m new lol. Has FFB and Falcon BMS been figured out?

AAV8 I have never seen any video online of people using a force feedback (FFB) system...

WhiteHawk77•7/7/24, 9:37 PM

There’s a number of Rhino MSFS videos on YouTube. You are aware though that Airbus airliners are fly-by-wire so to be realistic you would set up a FFB stick to not move on its own based on air over the control surfaces like you would most aircraft, which is where FFB really comes into its own.

In this case you would set it up so it would give you vibrations, the correct weight to push it and the feel of damping etc, but it won’t be fighting you based on what’s happening with the aircraft through the air.

To be honest, if you are only going to be using a FFB stick for the Fenix A320 or any other fly-by-wire aircraft like it you will get a lot less benefit from it compared to other aircraft. A normal spring based stick base with clutch dampers would be sufficient, and you can add a transducer and use a piece of software like Sim Shaker to add the vibrations as I currently do. The only thing FFB will give you with that type of aircraft is more control of the stick movement feel and damping.

KKoozie Sorry I’m new lol. Has FFB and Falcon BMS been figured out?

nubbins•7/7/24, 10:38 PM

i don't think anything has changed on that front

AAV8 I have never seen any video online of people using a force feedback (FFB) system...

smitty•7/7/24, 11:39 PM

i fly msfs 100%, the ffb is great for trimming. you hold the sick back to climb and trim to relieve pressure. also the stick force increases with airflow over the control surfaces. pedals too. this is all in GA craft, i dont do airliners so i dont know how those would feel.

CapnFlint•7/8/24, 2:41 AM

I've been not paying attention for a bit. Are there any updated recommended settings from Heatblur for Rhino/F4 yet?

WWhiteHawk77 There’s a number of Rhino MSFS videos on YouTube. You are aware though that Air...

AV8OP•7/8/24, 6:46 AM

Awesome information. Thank you. I will look out for more videos on youtube. Any videos I have seen to date are people with little experience flying, so they are overwhelmed with the joy of trying something new (just like trying VR for the first time). That wears off quickly and you begin to work out the pro's and con's of the device you are controlling / wearing. What I am truly after is the most realistic feeling of flying the Airbus aircraft. I imagine the magic is in the software. So if the software has not been written yet to mimic the fly by wire feeling, then I'm sure it's only a matter of time before that happens.

AV8OP•7/8/24, 6:49 AM

I do join in group flights occasionally so having the FFB base for the Spitfire and Messerschmitt Bf 109 would be amazing. I have not tried flying helicopters yet, I feel very intimidated by the learning curve, but who knows, maybe in the future...

AAV8 I do join in group flights occasionally so having the FFB base for the Spitfire ...

SamNFTY•7/8/24, 6:55 AM

FFB will def improve your feeling in the warbirds! With helo's, I suggest watching a few of Camso's videos (link below). He explains helo flying in a very easy to understand way. Couple that with the FFB and I think you'll quickly pickup and enjoy helo's
https://youtube.com/@casmotv?si=upJGAbPCFIOizSbd

YouTube

CasmoTV

I flew Apaches, Kiowas and now I fly 737s and make videos on YouTube…

AAV8 Awesome information. Thank you. I will look out for more videos on youtube. Any ...

SamNFTY•7/8/24, 7:08 AM

I think you are right that the Airbus magic is in their software, but as I understand it, that doesn't change the feel of their side stick. I don't believe there is any feedback in the stick, except maybe a stick shaker. Aside from that, I this it's just a sprung joystick like you would feel with a stock Winwing, VKB, or Virpil.

SamNFTY•7/8/24, 7:15 AM

This Reddit thread is short, but explains how there really isn't much feedback through the stick.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/VfcV6N9PTM

From the aviation community on Reddit

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SSamNFTY FFB will def improve your feeling in the warbirds! With helo's, I suggest watchi...

Flo-Soft•7/8/24, 7:17 AM

I guess you meant CaSMoTV - at CaMSo I only get offered tires for aircraft baggage carts...

FFlo-Soft I guess you meant CaSMoTV - at CaMSo I only get offered tires for aircraft bagga...

SamNFTY•7/8/24, 7:18 AM

Good point. Link added

Ssmitty i fly msfs 100%, the ffb is great for trimming. you hold the sick back to climb...

Arno•7/8/24, 7:25 AM

With airliners it is all over the place. In a 737, not trimming might result in forces that are not controllable due to mechanical linkage. If your engines are under the wing, you theoretically also need to trim out thrust moment changes. In pure hydraulic planes it depends on design. In the 777, you trim for speed but not for thrust. In the MD11, it will automatically trim away small forces but not large ones. And Airbus FBW involves no trimming while flying at all. Any planes that are pure hydraulic will not feed back aerodynamic forces, but usually implement some kind of spring rate that depends on indicated airspeed (even with unreliable airspeed).

AArno With airliners it is all over the place. In a 737, not trimming might result in ...

Flo-Soft•7/8/24, 7:39 AM

So a FFB stick for the airbus would make sense in that way that the simulated "spring strength" could be increased and decreased according to the indicated airspeed?

Arno•7/8/24, 7:40 AM

No the airbus is fixed spring

AV8OP•7/8/24, 7:41 AM

Thank you to all that have replied to my questions. Everyday I'm learning more.

Arno•7/8/24, 7:43 AM

But the airbus FBW stick has a very hydraulic feel, which you can not replicate with just a spring. I fly a320 fleet IRL, but have a VKB sidestick with a stiffer spring, it is close enough for my budget. But it is not perfect.

Flo-Soft•7/8/24, 7:47 AM

Do you know how the stick in the real airbus provides this hydraulic feel? Are there some kind of oil dampers attached?

Arno•7/8/24, 7:49 AM

No, I never looked, but I am certain there are people on this forum who have all the technical documentation. There are people here that know pretty much everything about controls

AArno But the airbus FBW stick has a very hydraulic feel, which you can not replicate ...

SamNFTY•7/8/24, 8:29 AM

I'll bet some kinda hydraulic damper like on the MFG crosswind would add that feel

AAV8 Thank you to all that have replied to my questions. Everyday I'm learning more. ...

Dracks•7/8/24, 11:05 AM

Having said that, I think it also depends on the needs expressed by @AV8. Does he just want the feel of the stick (close to the real Airbus stick) or is he looking for greater immersion? (And the choice is getting bigger: VR, motion system, etc.).

As some have said, an FFB just for the feel of the stick might be a bit much when cheaper alternatives exist.
Whatever the case, he should find what he's looking for, whether in FFB or other systems

AndyHill•7/8/24, 11:47 AM

apparently the sidestick is a pretty complicated thing just so that you can get a good feel for the non-ffb stick

AndyHill•7/8/24, 11:47 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Airbus/comments/zq8zpi/a320_side_stick_pulled_from_plane_last_night_had/

From the Airbus community on Reddit: A320 side stick pulled from pl...

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AndyHill•7/8/24, 11:49 AM

I just read somewhere that when you activate the autopilot solenoids would immobilize the stick (up to a point), that's something only FFB can do in a home simulator

FlyingEstee•7/8/24, 6:16 PM

FedEx messed up and had my base for 5 extra days but glad it is finally here

amadeus•7/8/24, 6:21 PM

hold the stick before starting the mission

Aamadeus _hold the stick before starting the mission_

Hiob•7/8/24, 6:33 PM

Yeah, the good old hit in the nuts…..

HHiob Yeah, the good old hit in the nuts…..🥲

Touch_Of_Legend•7/8/24, 6:52 PM

Riiiiinnng the bells!!

Bozo VFA-86•7/8/24, 6:52 PM

BBozo VFA-86 Click to see attachment

Stryker990•7/8/24, 9:03 PM

What u cant see: that plane is currently at 38k and bro just put it into a right left snaproll followed by a zoomclimb and then a weightless dive :Jeremiahmeme:

Bob Bushman•7/8/24, 9:13 PM

Guess he's driving the vomit comet.