I'm coming from a Virpil T50CM2 base. I needed a curve of 20 to fly the Apache. I know curves mess u

I'm coming from a Virpil T50CM2 base. I needed a curve of 20 to fly the Apache. I know curves mess up trimming with the Rhino, so can you apply one to the VPForce software?

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 2:23 PM

Never flown a helicopter but I am curious. When you pitch forward and return the stick to center does the helicopter keep its pitch point or does it return to neutral? Do you have to apply rearward pitch to level the helicopter?

1142nd_Bama As a primarily hello pilot in dcs I cannot wait to get mine finished!

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:24 PM

FFB for Helos is great. But in an unspectacular way. It is more what is taken away than what is added. It's really odd. All the big aerodynamic and g-forces in jets and warbirds are really impressive - still helos are the biggest winners of FFB for me.

TTheAmazinGreat Never flown a helicopter but I am curious. When you pitch forward and return the...

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:25 PM

Once above ETL, the cyclic and pedals work exactly like in a fixed wing aircraft. (Not literally but in effect)

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:26 PM

Example - The faster you go, the more you need to apply forward stick (or trim forward) to not climb.

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 2:30 PM

Ok, that makes sense. On the collective usage. Is collective generally left alone above ETL or is it in constant adjustment?

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:31 PM

When you want to go faster, you need more collective (or loose altitude) and pitch forward.

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 2:31 PM

And thanks for the help. If you have any suggestions for videos on how to fly I would appreciate it too.

TTheAmazinGreat And thanks for the help. If you have any suggestions for videos on how to fly I ...

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:32 PM

Look at youtube videos from vsTerminus. He made some very good tutorials on the Mi-8 (best helicopter simulation to date imho).

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:33 PM

Other than that - there are plenty of youtube channels lecturing on the aerodynamics of helicopters (real ones)

TTheAmazinGreat Ok, that makes sense. On the collective usage. Is collective generally left alon...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 2:34 PM

Try to look at collective as vertical velocity and cyclic as forward speed, you’re always exchanging alt for speed. I hope this makes sense

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 2:34 PM

It’s just a big balancing act

1142nd_Bama Try to look at collective as vertical velocity and cyclic as forward speed, you’...

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:35 PM

Don't want to be a smartass - but that is kind of misleading. Especially above ETL it is basically the other way round.

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:36 PM

A better way of thinking about it is, collective gives you power (or asks power from the engine) and cyclic shifts the power between climb and speed.

HHiob Don't want to be a smartass - but that is kind of misleading. Especially above E...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 2:37 PM

Ok get in a helo set the collective at 60% and push the stick forward and let me know what happens…. Alternatively do the opposite…

1142nd_Bama Ok get in a helo set the collective at 60% and push the stick forward and let me...

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:37 PM

Easy, you accelerate and decent.

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 2:37 PM

Might give the Blackhawk mod a go on DCS. Or do a trial of the Mi-8. I have been trying to learn to fly helicopter in Squad but the flight model is probably way off a real sim. Mostly was trying in Squad because I own it already and to see if I like flying helicopters. Don’t know if it’s just a bad flight model or I am bad pilot but probably it is both.

1142nd_Bama Ok get in a helo set the collective at 60% and push the stick forward and let me...

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:38 PM

you trade altitude for speed, exactly the same as in a fixed wing.

HHiob Easy, you accelerate and decent.

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 2:38 PM

Correct, now add collective and what happens?

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:38 PM

Go up a few lines and carefully read what I wrote about collective and cyclic.

Xaero Zero•7/23/24, 2:39 PM

if you never flown heli or FPV drone, it would be hard at start to get how it works

Xaero Zero•7/23/24, 2:39 PM

as soon as you get it, it's easy peasy, 360 no scope

Alighierian•7/23/24, 2:39 PM

And then the helo kills you.

Alighierian•7/23/24, 2:40 PM

But yea, once you get the gist of basic helo controls, it's relatively straight-forward with practice

Alighierian•7/23/24, 2:40 PM

Some are, of course, more temperamental than others.

Xaero Zero•7/23/24, 2:41 PM

10,000 hours rule always works

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:50 PM

Really, the hardest part is hovering and deaccelerating into a hover. Cruise flying is as straight forward as it is in fixed wing. Speed and altitude share an energy budget. You can increase one for the expense of the other, but not both - unless you add power.

RRoboGeoff I'm coming from a Virpil T50CM2 base. I needed a curve of 20 to fly the Apache. ...

LeLv30_Superbus•7/23/24, 2:50 PM

I think you no longer want any curves to mess with the feel of the Apache now that you have a Rhino. It can be tricky especially when landing but curves (if you could use them) would only make it harder. You may want a ~10 cm extension though.

HHiob Really, the hardest part is hovering and deaccelerating into a hover. Cruise fly...

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 2:51 PM

Turning is giving me fits too, but probably just need more practice. What do you do with collective in turns?

TTheAmazinGreat Turning is giving me fits too, but probably just need more practice. What do you...

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:53 PM

Maybe add a tiny bit, but as I said, same as with fixed wing. keep the ball centered with the pedals ("kick the ball") to avoid slip or skid.

Hiob•7/23/24, 2:56 PM

You will be fine tuning the turn with the cyclic without noticing. But physics dictate that in order to keep your altitude in a turn, you either slow down (pull on the cyvlic) or add power.

TTheAmazinGreat Might give the Blackhawk mod a go on DCS. Or do a trial of the Mi-8. I have been...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 2:57 PM

The 60 is my least favorite helo in dcs… the oh6 is pretty good for a mod. The Kiowa has the best fm but the Huey is really nice, it would be a good trial helo in my opinion!

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 3:08 PM

Maybe I’ll check out the OH6 mod also

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:08 PM

It is repeated over and over, and I like the FM of the OH-58. But I still fail to see, why or where it is better than that of the Mi-8. Generally the FMs of DCS-Helicopters are very good. I'd say benchmark across any consumer sim. But I can't see what makes the OH-58 so special tbh.

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:10 PM

(unless one reduces the quality of a helicopter FM to the onset of VRS)

Old Prospector•7/23/24, 3:15 PM

Anecdotally, the Mi-8 seems to have a ton of power. If you are nearly clean, you can go from a gentle descent 1m off the ground to a rapid climb at the drop of a hat.

Old Prospector•7/23/24, 3:16 PM

Big difference compared to Mi-24, very noticeable landing.

HHiob It is repeated over and over, and I like the FM of the OH-58. But I still fail t...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 3:27 PM

To be fair I haven’t flown the mi8….

LLeLv30_Superbus I think you no longer *want* any curves to mess with the feel of the Apache now ...

RoboGeoffOP•7/23/24, 3:29 PM

I do have a 10cm extension. I had a 15cm extension with the Virpil, but that steam is also much shorter. I find it's too twitchy for me right now on hovers and in transition than I am used to

1142nd_Bama To be fair I haven’t flown the mi8….

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:29 PM

The OH-58 is rather easy to fly (not necessarily unrealistic as I have heard), especially compared to the most popular helicopter module so far - the Apache. Perhaps this is where this judgement stems from.

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:30 PM

Anyway. Once you got a hang on flying he OH-6 - every other Helicopter flies in easy mode.....

HHiob Anyway. Once you got a hang on flying he OH-6 - every other Helicopter flies in...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 3:38 PM

Yes the oh6 and me do not get along!

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 3:40 PM

I wish there was a lofi cockpit, hifi flight model helicopter option lol

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 3:40 PM

Similar to Flaming Cliffs but for a helo

1142nd_Bama Yes the oh6 and me do not get along! 😂😂

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:41 PM

Eventually it clicked. The keyword for me was over-controlling. But I can't imagine flying it with a desktop spring loaded "peasant" joystick. (And it got a lot better with the second iteration of the FM)

TTheAmazinGreat Similar to Flaming Cliffs but for a helo

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:43 PM

Well, the OH-6 is free and doesnt' need a base module to work (afaik). It is a hard start, for sure, but if you learn to fly that, you can fly everything.

HHiob Well, the OH-6 is free and doesnt' need a base module to work (afaik). It is a h...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 3:50 PM

Agreed, you tame this thing the rest will be much easier!

HHiob Eventually it clicked. The keyword for me was over-controlling. But I can't imag...

Alighierian•7/23/24, 3:51 PM

Flew the initial version a bit, but yea, it was twitchy.

I think I ended up increasing the sensitivity, and limiting the outer range to match the in-game stick range.
Worked pretty well, actually, and I applied the same thing to the Apache.

Works nicely against over-compensating inputs, actually.

HHiob Eventually it clicked. The keyword for me was over-controlling. But I can't imag...

142nd_Bama•7/23/24, 3:51 PM

I’ve got the cm3 with a 200mm extension, it’s a fantastic setup but still excited to try the rhino!

1142nd_Bama I’ve got the cm3 with a 200mm extension, it’s a fantastic setup but still excite...

Hiob•7/23/24, 3:53 PM

I had a similar setup befor the rhino. It works as well as it comes with non-ffb. But no comparison to the Rhino.

HHiob Well, the OH-6 is free and doesnt' need a base module to work (afaik). It is a h...

TheAmazinGreat•7/23/24, 3:53 PM

https://tenor.com/view/for-free-adam-sandler-gif-16105496

Tenor

I'm coming from a Virpil T50CM2 base. I needed a curve of 20 to fly the Apache. I know curves mess u

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