VIf you zoom in, you can see that at 19700', Vne is down to 118 KIAS. Trust me, an LS6 can hit 118 KIAS easily cruising under a western clould street - BTDT over the Grand Canyon at 17999' a few times. So you have to keep that in mind when blasting along fat, dumb, and happy; because if you get sucked into a Cu, getting out by diving may not be an option, and opening the spoilers at VNE is not a really good idea...and without gyros, well, you know what happens next.
HI guess operating at the edge of the envelope is always risky business
VFor those of you not familiar with racing gliders - you can get to redline with an easy push on the stick and about a 5 degree dive for less than a thousand feet. Back when low passes were common, a normal pattern was a wormburning Vne pass across the field dumping water ballast then pitching up to a closed pattern. Or sometimes a second Vne pass...not that I would EVER do anything that fun
V
VDifferent subject: has anyone use their Rhino with AFS 4?
Bmy Rhino was just delivered!!!
Bits a tricky subject that is overtly colored by ones [often limited] experiences. Even in most pilot forums talking about VNE triggers a ton of discord
ALS6 is nice. But I fly gliders too, never seen a speedo with more than one Vne on it.
Bive been meaning to get my glider rating for years. I live within an hour of two glider ports, i should finally give it a go
Acertainly, it is much more satisfying to stay up there by skill rather than by fuel. In europe, gliding tends to be cheaper than powered flying due to winch launching and clubs sharing the investment.
AAnd it will train natural stick and rudder skills, you'll fly planes like riding a bike.
Bi started in Utralights when i was a kid and moved to GA when i was 19.
MThat info is usually in the factory fight manual
M…as opposed to the panel
BIs there a template or cad for the general throw limiter dimensions that you used? Im thinking i will need one more custom than the 11 degree
Bthanks... Search for Throw limiter and nothing came up
RHe linked the correct thread. I’m installing a new limiter of 9,8 this week.
Byeah i already checked it out..need to make some measurements and then ill print one. I have the 11 to try first but im sure i want less aileron deflection than pitch
KAnyone interested in my Rhino Monstertech Mount plate? I upgraded to a sim rig so I don't need it anymore
1Hi all, I am pretty my question was already discussed somewhere but i have no idea how to find it. The question is: why does the stick stiffen under Gs and not under dynamic pressure (airspeed) in Il2GB? Does IL2 not provide speed as telemetry?
NIL2 does have dynamic spring as part of its FFB implementation. Thats about all it has. Theres a few haptic effects like gunfire and stall buffeting but they arent very well done.
TelemFFB adds a bunch of other types of effects, but the native support is what I wrote above.
TelemFFB adds a bunch of other types of effects, but the native support is what I wrote above.
SWhat TelemFFB settings are needed to enable stiffening of stick forces in roll axis as airspeed increases?
NTelemFFB doesn't play a role in the spring stiffness for IL2 (or DCS) since it has native control of the spring effect
1I dont understand your answer. When using telemffb il2 native ffb should be disabled. That means telemffb provides all effects.
1So is telemffb capable of providing stick forces based on airspeed for il2 and dcs?
Nwhere did you get this information?
1If you are referring to disabling native il2 ffb then i got it from rhino manual
Nno, it talks about disabling "Shake" only.
1What is "shake"?
NHaptic/Periodic effects. For IL2 native support that is limited to Buffeting, Runway Rumble and Weapons effects
NTo answer your original question. No, TelemFFB does not implement dynamic speed based spring for DCS/IL2 since the sims themselves do it.
1Thanks for answering, how do i disable shake?
NRight in the input settings where you would enable/disable FFB. There are two sliders. One for shaking, that controls the haptic feedback I previously mentioned. One for "feedback power" that is the master gain control for the dynamic spring based effects.
The only reason it is recommended to set the shaking value to 0 is that (in my opinion) the TelemFFB effects for Buffeting, Runway Rumble and Weapons Effects are just better than the built-in ones. This is what the Duplicate Shake Effects section in the manual is talking about.
If you enable the "IL2 Shake Master" setting in TelemFFB, you should disable the shake effects in IL2 so they are not both trying to play at the same time.
The only reason it is recommended to set the shaking value to 0 is that (in my opinion) the TelemFFB effects for Buffeting, Runway Rumble and Weapons Effects are just better than the built-in ones. This is what the Duplicate Shake Effects section in the manual is talking about.
If you enable the "IL2 Shake Master" setting in TelemFFB, you should disable the shake effects in IL2 so they are not both trying to play at the same time.
1Many thanks now i understand!
一Is that on every aircraft or only on certain aircraft? Some WW2 aircraft have bobweight as a feeling device which stiffens the stick according to G. P-51 is one of them, not sure which model tho
1No its just that i didnt understand how to set it up.
一Speaking of the new G-Force effect...
I’m still a bit confused about certain aspects. From what I understand, the formula is:
(Current G) / (Max G) * (Current Stick Deflection) / (Max Stick Deflection)
I believe the first part (related to G) is intended to increase the stick force according to G-load, and the second part (deflection) is designed to make the stick harder to pull as you pull it further.
However, I’m uncertain whether this effect replicates what a bobweight would typically do.
For instance, let's assume the aircraft has a max G of 8, and that stick (or control surface) deflection is linearly proportional to the change in G/ability to generate G (i.e., the deflection of the elevator/stabilator results in a proportional G-load).
With the settings: max intensity is F, start G is 1, max G is 8, and the Y-axis max point is 100%:
At a certain airspeed, if the maximum G available is 4 and this requires full stick deflection. For a max-g pulling in such a condition, the current G-effect implementation should work, as it would yield something like:
((4/8) * 100%) * F = 1/2 F.
But at the same airspeed, if pulling 2G requires half of the stick travel, the result would be:
((2/8) * 50%) * F = 1/8 F.
Since the stick deflection is proportional to the change in G, shouldn’t it be:
((max G available at current airspeed) * 50%) * F = ((4/8) * 50%) * F = 1/4 F?
I understand that in reality, stick/surface deflection may not be perfectly/linearly proportional to G-load, but my point is that since stick deflection is already related to the current G, using the "current G proportion" (current G divided by max G) might make the force smaller than it should be, as we saw in the example above. Wouldn't this be the case?
I’m still a bit confused about certain aspects. From what I understand, the formula is:
(Current G) / (Max G) * (Current Stick Deflection) / (Max Stick Deflection)
I believe the first part (related to G) is intended to increase the stick force according to G-load, and the second part (deflection) is designed to make the stick harder to pull as you pull it further.
However, I’m uncertain whether this effect replicates what a bobweight would typically do.
For instance, let's assume the aircraft has a max G of 8, and that stick (or control surface) deflection is linearly proportional to the change in G/ability to generate G (i.e., the deflection of the elevator/stabilator results in a proportional G-load).
With the settings: max intensity is F, start G is 1, max G is 8, and the Y-axis max point is 100%:
At a certain airspeed, if the maximum G available is 4 and this requires full stick deflection. For a max-g pulling in such a condition, the current G-effect implementation should work, as it would yield something like:
((4/8) * 100%) * F = 1/2 F.
But at the same airspeed, if pulling 2G requires half of the stick travel, the result would be:
((2/8) * 50%) * F = 1/8 F.
Since the stick deflection is proportional to the change in G, shouldn’t it be:
((max G available at current airspeed) * 50%) * F = ((4/8) * 50%) * F = 1/4 F?
I understand that in reality, stick/surface deflection may not be perfectly/linearly proportional to G-load, but my point is that since stick deflection is already related to the current G, using the "current G proportion" (current G divided by max G) might make the force smaller than it should be, as we saw in the example above. Wouldn't this be the case?
一——————————
Additionally, is the G-induced force added to the static/dynamic spring force, or does it override it so that the total stick force becomes the force from G-effect only?
——————————
Apologies if this sounds unclear—I'm trying to discuss a tricky math-related topic in a language that isn’t my native one lol . I might be misunderstanding the current implementation or missing something important. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
OK If we can forget all this weird relations of variables and make it simpler: what if we mimic what a real bobweight based feel system does? —— Total force = spring force (spring&cam etc) + dynamic force (G-induced force on bobweight). Since we can get the current G from telemetry, what about using the current G value, multiplied by an intensity setting (a percentage of max torque or constant force. The result value simulates the bobweight under 1G), and adding it on top of the spring force, damper and inertia effect etc?
Of course, in some aircraft, the "static" spring force might be replaced by a dynamic spring force (aerodynamic force or by bellows).
I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thx!
Additionally, is the G-induced force added to the static/dynamic spring force, or does it override it so that the total stick force becomes the force from G-effect only?
——————————
Apologies if this sounds unclear—I'm trying to discuss a tricky math-related topic in a language that isn’t my native one lol . I might be misunderstanding the current implementation or missing something important. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
OK If we can forget all this weird relations of variables and make it simpler: what if we mimic what a real bobweight based feel system does? —— Total force = spring force (spring&cam etc) + dynamic force (G-induced force on bobweight). Since we can get the current G from telemetry, what about using the current G value, multiplied by an intensity setting (a percentage of max torque or constant force. The result value simulates the bobweight under 1G), and adding it on top of the spring force, damper and inertia effect etc?
Of course, in some aircraft, the "static" spring force might be replaced by a dynamic spring force (aerodynamic force or by bellows).
I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thx!
HI‘m not @Number481 but I was his „beta-tester“ for the new effect.
You‘re overthinking it a little bit. The aim wasn’t to simulate a bob-weight (even though, to a certain extend it does), but to get rid of some adverse effects of the old G-effect. The old one had some latency due to its dependence on outside telemetry by DCS. This and the exponential curve together led to unwanted oscillation when pulling G fast. The new Effect is more responsive since it can take the stick position into account much quicker. The effect itself is linear now, (per default) but due to the new factor, it is progressive again. The differences between the new and old effect are subtle (dpending on your exact settings).
However, my personal opinion, when you compare the new effect to the native bob-weight simulation in the Phantom, it comes very close.
You‘re overthinking it a little bit. The aim wasn’t to simulate a bob-weight (even though, to a certain extend it does), but to get rid of some adverse effects of the old G-effect. The old one had some latency due to its dependence on outside telemetry by DCS. This and the exponential curve together led to unwanted oscillation when pulling G fast. The new Effect is more responsive since it can take the stick position into account much quicker. The effect itself is linear now, (per default) but due to the new factor, it is progressive again. The differences between the new and old effect are subtle (dpending on your exact settings).
However, my personal opinion, when you compare the new effect to the native bob-weight simulation in the Phantom, it comes very close.
一ok this makes a lot more sense. thx.
(Still, wish we could have a real bobweight simulation someday, especially for DIY base with high forces, and just in case the module doesn't support it natively. For example, I've heard the A-10C doesn't have it simulated natively tho I haven't had the chance to try it. Not sure for F-5, P-51 either
(Still, wish we could have a real bobweight simulation someday, especially for DIY base with high forces, and just in case the module doesn't support it natively. For example, I've heard the A-10C doesn't have it simulated natively tho I haven't had the chance to try it. Not sure for F-5, P-51 either
WThe previous G effect was very close to a real bob weight simulation, but the the latency of the G telemetry caused unwanted oscillation felt in the force output
一ah..that's quite unfortunate!
HMy recommendation for settings if you want to have „more“ force. Put the max G close to what the airframe can actualy achieve (but a little above that). Put the max force to 100% (obviously) and reduce the slider for the stick position to 50%. (applies force faster/earlier)
一thx for explaining, everyone
Has a last step you can still adjust the curve I think.
HI think with all the detailed settings, you can tune the effect perfectly to any desired feeling - including the F-4 like bob-weight.
HAnd of course you can still use the old effect instead if you want to.
HDON‘T do that for the F-16 though. You will heat saturate the stick in no time…..
(ask me how I know
(ask me how I know一again appreciate the advice
do you know by any chance whether the G-effect is added on top of the spring force or it override it?
do you know by any chance whether the G-effect is added on top of the spring force or it override it?