* Regarding VKB - yes you will need to connect to the black box. This is a solution for those who ha

*
Regarding VKB - yes you will need to connect to the black box. This is a solution for those who have existing VKB systems and don't want to switch over to TM/Virpil.

Wwalmis The base itself is quite high, so better to attach to the floor/seat than use lo...

原

原子力Hoshino•6/25/22, 5:16 AM

are the arrangement of the screw holes identical to any existing device? I saw on the diagram that the distance btwn the holes are 160 x 160.32 though, they are in mm I guess?

原

原子力Hoshino•6/25/22, 5:18 AM

or perhaps it's possible to direct mount the Rhino onto a aluminum profile structure? consumer center chair mounts are very rear..

walmisOP•6/25/22, 5:19 AM

Yeah it's 160x160mm. You can definitely make a structure from alu profiles. But it needs to be pretty well attached to something.

walmisOP•6/25/22, 5:20 AM

A couple of concrete sidewalk tiles would do the trick also

原

原子力Hoshino•6/25/22, 5:22 AM

btw glad to see the VKB grip will soon be supported. nice job man, you are the savior

so WW nxt perhaps?

forgive my greediness

Wwalmis Yeah it's 160x160mm. You can definitely make a structure from alu profiles. But ...

原

原子力Hoshino•6/25/22, 5:22 AM

roger. haha

原原子力Hoshino btw glad to see the VKB grip will soon be supported. nice job man, you are the s...

walmisOP•6/25/22, 5:23 AM

Yeah, I'll have to buy a WW grip next, unless someone wants to lend it for research

原

原子力Hoshino•6/25/22, 5:28 AM

but there is a chance that WW uses their own protocol/encrypted too. I heard of this bcz in China there is a guy who makes "replica" FSSB and when he was asked whether it will support the WW grips, he said something like that, iirc. But if you can someday make a similar approach like you did with the VKB grip, personally I think it'll be just wonderful and enough, in that case the blackbox is just replaced by the Winwing joystick base. So basically an adaptor + daisy chain cable extension.

walmisOP•6/25/22, 5:30 AM

ah, interesting

Wwalmis Yeah, I'll have to buy a WW grip next, unless someone wants to lend it for resea...

原

原子力Hoshino•6/25/22, 5:30 AM

no worries, VKB grips are just good enough, they have plenty of buttons for emulating almost every available modules in flight sim

Wwalmis * Regarding VKB - yes you will need to connect to the black box. This is a solut...

Khangirey•6/25/22, 7:56 AM

Thank you. In a few short words, could you tell me what your product does differently/better than the brunner? Since we're in the early steps of new gen FFB devices, I want to make the most informed decision possible when it comes to ordering one of your bases.

FFlashgod_VR @everyone just wrote my first thoughts about the Rhino in the DCS FFB thread. s...

Frenchy•6/25/22, 7:57 AM

@khangirey you can start here

Khangirey•6/25/22, 7:57 AM

walmisOP•6/25/22, 8:01 AM

Yeah, I did a quick comparison to the brunner a few posts down that review in the forum

Frenchy•6/25/22, 8:04 AM

Could you pin that link @walmis ?

Khangirey•6/25/22, 8:14 AM

Thanks. A few more questions if you don't mind. I normally play with a VKB grip on a 200mm extension. Moving down to a shorter extension + FFB, will I notice a degradation in resolution/clarity/feeling?

KKhangirey Thanks. A few more questions if you don't mind. I normally play with a VKB grip ...

walmisOP•6/25/22, 8:37 AM

No, It has a very good resolution/sensitivity even without an extension. The pivot to grip length is 168mm and total throw is 44 deg.

Wwalmis No, It has a very good resolution/sensitivity even without an extension. The piv...

Khangirey•6/25/22, 8:38 AM

Thanks. So what I'm understanding is that with the FFB, it makes up for that lowering in length, correct?

walmisOP•6/25/22, 8:41 AM

Not sure if I understood, but in general - longer extension, lower max force felt in the stick, also - longer extension- longer throw. The precision is very good in any configuration

FFrenchy Could you pin that link @walmis ?

walmisOP•6/25/22, 8:43 AM

It was pinned already

TTripRodriguez FFB pedals might also be nice in warbirds and such, but force trim/mag brake in ...

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:04 PM

I build some rudder pedals wit simple parts, targeting planes, but the should do for you as well. What is still missing is the electronic part that can load the motor according to the force acting on the rudder in dependence of the airspeed.

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:06 PM

Another view...

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:10 PM

The mechanism has no springs and very low friction. So any force has to come from the motor.

ccs_goebel•6/25/22, 8:13 PM

Is the FFB kit capable of that?

Wwalmis Not sure if I understood, but in general - longer extension, lower max force fel...

Vulcan•6/26/22, 12:21 PM

What would need to change to make it more extension friendly? In general when you have such a large base and want to center mount a stick for a seat with a center cutout, the base needs to be mounted below the seat with the extension passing through the cutout. This is why I haven't bought the brunner, because they say it doesn't work well extended and the only thing that does is the $10,000 brunner.

walmisOP•6/26/22, 12:31 PM

Not sure if it's a problem though. You can calculate the force, for example with stock Rhino at 9Nm you get: 9/0.168m/10 = ~5.3kg max force, if you extend it to 30cm you get: 9/0.3/10 = 3kg

Vulkan•6/26/22, 12:53 PM

For refernce a VKB base with max springs is like 5nm I belive

Vulkan•6/26/22, 12:53 PM

so your getting greater resistance then most non FFB sticks

Cccs_goebel Is the FFB kit capable of that?

walmisOP•6/26/22, 1:12 PM

The hardware is capable, but the software support is lacking for rudder pedals.

Cccs_goebel Is the FFB kit capable of that?

Propeler3D•6/26/22, 7:18 PM

I have firmware compatible with ODrive board (for pedals single axis ODrive will be enough) that supports FBB based on DCS telemetry. It genareates spring from speed (you can setup curve for it) as well as centering force from thrust (emulates air flow around rudder for propeller drive airplanes). In addition it generates vibration depending on AOA and G. So if you have three phase motor you can try it.

PPropeler3D I have firmware compatible with ODrive board (for pedals single axis ODrive will...

JayPi•6/27/22, 4:08 AM

Is that your bldc-ffb-wheel firmware? A hoverboard motor could be a nice drive for pedals.

JJayPi Is that your bldc-ffb-wheel firmware? A hoverboard motor could be a nice drive f...

Propeler3D•6/27/22, 6:39 AM

It is further development of it for joystick purposes(two axis + DCS telemetry).

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:28 PM

I´m targeting the Condor 2 Soaring Simulator. In its Input Section it shows FFB for Stick and Rudder

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:28 PM

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:29 PM

I assume that pedals mean rudder ...

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:32 PM

I agree that the easiest way is to scale a spring curve with the plane velocity. Zero velocity will mean spring rate zero or very low, higher slope if velocity increases.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:33 PM

Would it make sense to contact the Condor developer team?

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:33 PM

Btw. FFB wit side winder 2 is really good

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:36 PM

Just a little low forcese

walmisOP•6/28/22, 6:36 PM

I wonder if Condor/DirectInput supports three axis FFB devices. Or one two axis device and a second one axis device for the rudders. It could be possible to connect three motors to the VPforce FFB system, just hadn't had the chance to test this yet.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:40 PM

They adress the MS Sidwinder 2 correctly, no additional drivers needed

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:40 PM

Im using it with a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog in parallel, no issues or conflicts.

walmisOP•6/28/22, 6:41 PM

Yeah, VPforce will also work the same as msffb2, just with more force. What is curious for me is the ffb rudder pedals support :)

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:42 PM

They should hand over the needed data somewhere.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:43 PM

I will ask them if they can give us a hint.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:44 PM

Rudder will challenge the motor as you have a lot of force in your legs, especially when things do not run well

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:44 PM

So this has to be strong and needs to handle overload conditions

walmisOP•6/28/22, 6:46 PM

The 86BLF motor should do the job fine for rudders

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:47 PM

I had the idea to have an output connector on the FFB joystick that delivers the airspeed to the rudder pedals.

ccs_goebel•6/28/22, 6:48 PM

That would be enough to have a scaleable feedback force at the rudder.

* Regarding VKB - yes you will need to connect to the black box. This is a solution for those who ha

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