Is there any place referencing what is supposed to be the feel of the flying stick in real life for

Is there any place referencing what is supposed to be the feel of the flying stick in real life for each of the different modules available in DCS? Such a repository would be very helpful when trying to configure each module with as much realism as possible. The other day I came across a post in DCS forum for instance, and I discovered that IRL the Huey stick is very light to the touch, can be moved with one finger and is supposed to stay in place with no spring effect centering it back, and therefore it does not need any force trim (except in case of hydraulic pressure), this came very useful for me to totally reconfigure what i had for the Huey for FFB response, and came as a surprise as I would have never guessed that.

Fr4Ged•2/10/25, 2:03 PM

I feel like TelemFFB already is trying to do that

FFr4Ged I feel like TelemFFB already is trying to do that

YoutchOP•2/10/25, 2:06 PM

TelemFFB is a very useful software, but it just sliders you can move and configure for each one own taste, on the top of profile you call from FFB_Configurator. and the one coming from telemetry data sent by DCS. But, it does not tell you who heavy or spring loaded the real stick is supposed to feel in each module.

Fr4Ged•2/10/25, 2:15 PM

Iirc it overwrites the config settings but I understand where you are going

YoutchOP•2/10/25, 2:43 PM

The same applies to elevator drop effect for instance that you can configure in TelemFFB: older planes had their elevators actually dropping due to their own weight when the plane was parked, with the stick dropping forward as a consequence. Then upon switching on the engine, the propeller wash would raise the elevator into a centered position. It is very cool that this can be implemented through TelemFFB, but who knows to which planes this actually applied in DCS or IL2?
https://forum.dcs.world/topic/369069-position-of-elevators-when-the-plane-is-parked/#comment-5603524
Parked F-14s seem to be with elevator dropped for instance, but it is hard to know for sure without clear references.

ED Forums

Position of elevators when the plane is parked

Hello, I understand that many of the older planes had their elevators actually dropping due to their own weight when the plane was parked, with the stick dropping forward as a consequence. Then upon switching on the engine, the propeller wash would raise the elevator into a centered position. I u...

YYoutch Is there any place referencing what is supposed to be the feel of the flying sti...

LeLv30_Superbus•2/10/25, 6:07 PM

Not to my knowledge. I can only recommend aviation literature. If, for example, Huey is your favourite, then read Chickenhawk and learn how Robert Mason described the control feel.

LeLv30_Superbus•2/10/25, 6:12 PM

And whether they were told to fly Force trim switch on or off in Viet Nam.

Touch_Of_Legend•2/11/25, 11:46 AM

You can also take a bunch of discovery flights but most of us are/were former pilots in real life so most of us just sort of go by how things “used to feel”

It’s never going to be true simulators unless we had some sort of G force seat belts with some other sort of Level D platforms

VPforceBot•2/11/25, 12:21 PM

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VPforceBot•2/11/25, 12:21 PM

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VPforceBot•2/11/25, 12:21 PM

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RHINO #0898 Has Shipped!

Boggy•2/11/25, 4:46 PM

Does anybody here fly the IFE T-45C in MSFS2020 or 2024? Just wondering if you can recommend any settings for the TelemFFB setup.

Wwalmis Let's appreciate that it exists at least, other options are friggin' expensive o...

NAVPI•2/12/25, 3:33 AM

DHL not competitive for shipping to the US?

YYuchenYan If it’s still possible to return and refund your ab9 I suggest you to do it, and...

ToreDL87•2/12/25, 4:48 AM

I actually tried to warn people at the Moza announcement on r/WarThunder.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dy5lip/check_out_the_moza_ab9_ffb_base_in_action_with/
One WT fanboy who doesn't even have FFB or know anything about it tried arguing with me using the stock "War thunder supports FFB" copy paste reurgitated nonsense from website/wikipedia (My claim of him being a fanboy is thus substantiated), yes I answered with more knowledge than I shoulda bombed in one post, but for a reason, Gaijin has a proven track record of deleting or blocking any more commenting the second they smell bacon burning on the pan.
And yep, sure enough, Gaijin proceeded to immediately block any more discussion on that post

I don't even know why Gaijin coop'ed with Moza, full knowing War Thunder's FFB has been dodgy for almost a decade, Grasownik makes the 5th known case of a Moza owner who can't get it working for War Thunder, and I absolutely sympathize.
But at the same time, it shoulda been easy spot for anyone who does a modicum of research before putting this much money into a product (it's #2 on Page 1 google search results, and Gaijin support bug reports on FFB issues are sprinkled throughout as well), apparently nobody is taking heed, so it's as much on them as on Moza and Gaijin IMO, though they should ofc be due their money back if they bought the Moza for War Thunder.

From the Warthunder community on Reddit: Check out the MOZA AB9 FFB...

Explore this post and more from the Warthunder community

ToreDL87•2/12/25, 5:03 AM

Also there used to be a line to edit in controls input file to get FFB working, but that line was removed somewhere around.. 3-4 years ago?
FFBeast seems to get it working, more than one video of FFbeast players in War Thunder, so I downloaded FFBeast Commander software to see what differences there are between VPForce configurator and FFBeast Commander in order to make a substantiated suggestion to VPForce.
...But, thwarted again, FFBeast Commander throws error and wont even run if no FFBeast PCB is connected to your computer.

I've tried 3 MSFFB2's + my Rhino, across 5 different computers, different O/S's and HW configurations, and haven't got FFB working.
A friend got an MSFFB2 recently, instantly got it working in War Thunder zero issues.
I haven't yet figured out what combination of HW/Software/OS causes FFB issues with War Thunder's FFB, it's completely random whether it works or not, inexplicably it works only for a handful.

ToreDL87•2/12/25, 5:26 AM

War Thunder certainly has no issue sharing Telemetry data, that's how the game's cloud-based replay system works, it's also how WTRTI (a overlay to get things like engine power, thrust numbers, compass, etc) works, and whenever I use Replay or WTRTI = No issues.
I've tried on fresh installs, fresh OS installs, etc.. no dice, maybe it's a Windows registry thing?

Plenty public bug reports dating back years and years, the most comprehensive one is here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/svuBJF4gzunN
But as per Gaijin's usual style when it pertains to uncomfortable subjects, they steer clear, they've never even bothered to acknowledge the issue.
Aces of Thunder will probably be way better written and have proper FFB support, issue is it's gonna be VR only.

Of course important to note (a.k.a disclaimer): I originally bought the Rhino for other sims, having had no success with my MSFFB2's in War Thunder I knew the Rhino likely wouldn't work.
Thinking on it leaves me with a small pang of disappointment, there are aircraft & ww2 theaters War Thunder covers that other available sims don't cover at all or not to the same extent except il2 46 but graphics are too dated, War Thunder is the only viable option.
So that's one scratch in the paint of one of 2 similarly priced FFB solutions (around the 800-1200E mark), it doesn't work with War Thunder.

I can only appeal here, I gather from Walmis's end he isn't too keen on trying to get VPForce to work with War Thunder?
There's a growing market here, customers of high end FFB products are in fact playing War Thunder.
VPForce has a customer base and a documented number of customers, Gaijin would be monke not to pursue their FFB issue if approached by VPForce.
And it's gotta sting for Walmis at least a little, knowing FFBeast (seemingly) has one up on him?

(Also sorry for the wall of text, I don't have it in me to leave the issue until I at least throw in my bet, you're just gonna have to sue me)

VPforceBot•2/12/25, 11:34 AM

:package:

RHINO #0900 Has Shipped!

corbu1•2/12/25, 1:06 PM

Number 900!

Kite•2/12/25, 1:09 PM

W00t w00t

YoutchOP•2/12/25, 2:29 PM

If I understanding well (please correct me if I am wrong). In DCS, the game send a set of parameter for each plane. I am assuming that this define values for parameters of Spring/Damper/Inertia/Friction/Constant. First question, is this correct? Can DCS send values for all these parameters? Is it just a value or it can also define gain curve? Are these values known/documented/or can they be reverse engineered?

YoutchOP•2/12/25, 2:37 PM

Then on the top of this parameters sent by DCS for each module, TelemFFB (a part of adding additional effects) is recalling the values set-up in the VPForce Configurator Profile for the associated module (even if we may directly overwrite these through TelemFFB as well). Now what I am not fulling understanding is how this parameter set in VPForce Effect Limits under Global Effect Limits are interacting with the parameters sent by DCS? If DCS is determining that spring for F14 shall be 40%, and VPConfigurator has it set to 50%. Does it imply that the resulting value will be 20% and that the only way to get the default configuration coming from DCS is to leave Global Effect limit to 100%? Or I miss something? I tried leaving some parameters to 100% but the response seemed excessive to me, so I must have got something wrong. Thanks in advance for your lights

YoutchOP•2/12/25, 2:41 PM

The manual says this: Each slider allows amplication or reduction of the effect set in the previous
Effects tab. The total effect felt by the user will be the product of these two numbers. So
for example if the spring effect is set to 50% in the effects tab, and the slider on the
settings tab for spring is set to 50%, then the user will feel 25% of the maximal force.
There is a reason for providing these two controls separately. (I dont know what the
reason is but Walmis certainly does)
- I thought that the game was anyway overwriting the values in effect tab

NNumber481 That *is* how it works. - Sliders on the Settings tab define the max applied val...

walmis•2/12/25, 3:08 PM

walmis•2/12/25, 3:10 PM

That's the TLDR version, basically almost all games only control only the spring effect (center point and stiffness). Other effects can could be created from telemFFB - such as low hydraulic pressure effect for example.

Mm2times_Click to see attachment

jc523•2/12/25, 3:16 PM

nice work. are you planning to share the STL file?

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:21 PM

if you want it, sure, its just a simple plate with a few holes

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:21 PM

hole setup probably going to differ between your desired mounting solution and mine anyway

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:21 PM

the small holes are for the qr4rigs qruhd quick release base

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:21 PM

the large countersunk holes are to mount the plate to the rig profile below

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:26 PM

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:27 PM

gonna be something like this

m2times_•2/12/25, 3:28 PM

yellow is the qruhd base.

YoutchOP•2/12/25, 4:28 PM

Could you please explain this text and table in page 69-70 of the manual: Load aircraft with vpconf set at %80 and spring gain override congured at %40
○ TelemFFB pushes new vpconf
■ new gains are read and stored for later use
○ TelemFFB pushes gains from the override cong
○ The net result is that the gains on the device will be whatever is in the
override cong since it happens lastTelemFFB Congurator Spring Gain Override 80%
TelemFFB Aircraft spring gain x 40%
Final Force 75%

YoutchOP•2/12/25, 4:29 PM

What is the net results here? 40%?

YYoutch Could you please explain this text and table in page 69-70 of the manual: Load a...

Number481•2/12/25, 4:35 PM

They are called "configurator gain overrides" in TelemFFB because you are literally overriding whatever gain slider setting you have in configurator. Setting these for an aircraft in TelemFFB is the equivalent of opening configurator and moving the slider to a %value and applying.

Wwalmis Empty message

YoutchOP•2/12/25, 5:27 PM

If I understand correctly, then what would make sense is to apply in the Setting slider always the same maximum value for all DCS modules, and let DCS set it up based on its own parameter. Am I understanding correctly? Is there anyway to know which is the value set by DCS? Is it always one value or can be a curve as well?

Papa•2/12/25, 5:31 PM

@walmis I would like to ask about the Winwing adapter you offer. I want to use it to connect my WW grip to a Moza base. I know they are not compatible, so I want to run a bypass cable and plug the grip into the old WW base. I am only interested in a mechanical female to female adapter. I would use it to connect a male to female extension, drill out a hole in it, and run the bypass cable. Therefore, I need the adapter to not convert the WW cable to anything, but just contain a simple din6 extension. Or just to be hollow. I don't want the din6 to din5 conversion that the Winwing adapter contains. Would this be possible to order from you?

Boggy•2/13/25, 5:22 PM

Is it me or is the DCS F-4 a total pain to trim out nicely? It feels like the instrument trainer I used to fly in flight school 25 years ago, one moment you're flying at the right heading , alt and speed. Look away for a split second and it's in a 3000 ft/min dive. What the hell?! Am I missing a setting or something?

BBoggy Is it me or is the DCS F-4 a total pain to trim out nicely? It feels like the i...

TheAmazinGreat•2/13/25, 5:56 PM

From what I’ve heard that is working as intended. I don’t feel like I can ever get a level trim on that thing either. When it’s almost there even one tap of the button always overtrims

TTheAmazinGreat From what I’ve heard that is working as intended. I don’t feel like I can ever g...

Boggy•2/13/25, 6:03 PM

Exactly, it's really irritating. I've never flown a real airplane that was that hard to trim to fly level. The instrument trainer we had did behave like that and that was to make us better instrument pilots.

Fr4Ged•2/13/25, 6:25 PM

Yeah, same. Always fighting for trimming.
Maybe @Grover can give some insights how to set it up best?

TheAmazinGreat•2/13/25, 7:06 PM

I find it’s easiest to trim slightly nose down and then use some muscle memory to hold back pressure on the stick. Also, I like to use the altitude hold when possible, just be sure to bind master caution reset.

SkyPirate17•2/14/25, 1:19 AM

is the Rhino base physically compatible with SimFab DCS edition?

SkyPirate17•2/14/25, 1:25 AM

looking through past messages in this server I see reference to a custom mounting bracket, what issue does that solve (i.e. is the standard mounting bracket too tall or are the holes in the wrong locations, etc...)

TTheAmazinGreat I find it’s easiest to trim slightly nose down and then use some muscle memory t...

Reed•2/14/25, 2:48 AM

I do this too

Reed•2/14/25, 2:48 AM

But with helicopters

Jehly•2/14/25, 2:55 AM

Anyone's joystick just go limp in DCS? I'm getting no resistance whatsoever but I still get telemffb working

BBoggy Is it me or is the DCS F-4 a total pain to trim out nicely? It feels like the i...

asut•2/14/25, 4:26 AM

I find it easier to trim when the adaptive recentering is off.

VPforceBot•2/14/25, 7:42 AM

:package:

RHINO #0902 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•2/14/25, 7:42 AM

:package:

RHINO #0903 Has Shipped!

BBoggy Exactly, it's really irritating. I've never flown a real airplane that was that...

Touch_Of_Legend•2/14/25, 10:51 AM

Really gives you another level of respect for the Blue Angels pilots who flew the F4 before the transition to F18’s.

Now of course they’ve transitioned again and they fly the Super’s.

But yeah formation flying in the Phantom….

Was seriously a next level skill.

Flying formation in a hornet is balls easy as compared.

Is there any place referencing what is supposed to be the feel of the flying stick in real life for

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